Which have been told repeatedly to evacuated.

Is Hamas immune?

11500 death, 12000 of which are children and the rest are women. Not a single Hamas terrorist died in the war so far. Israel is deliberately targeting civilians.
Gaza is a wonderful place where an ambulance is simply an ambulance and hospitals are used to treat patients. Apartments are to live in and no one have ever thought of hiding weapons, rockets etc under his bed. And if he did, it’s for self defence.

They will scream genocide all the way to the destruction of our country and if it happens than we are probably deserve it.
Achi, how do you even keep debating those guys ? lol

This is the same evil shit the US government did to downplay drone murders of innocents: labeling any male a military combatant even if they are a child.

Except in this case its not after surveilling often relatively isolated individuals over a large mountainous area, its after dropping a large number of bombs into very highly populated neighborhood or hospital in a short period of time.

If a terrorist kidnaps someone in the US and takes them into the hospital, would you be ok with the government blowing up everyone in the hospital and the surrounding neighborhood? No that would obviously be evil and disproportionate.

What should they do? Take more careful measures to target actual combatants.

The libertarian and moral standard for mass murder is not "well there were lots of people there and its inconvenient to use other methods so thats makes it ok"

I'm not labeling "any male a combatant," but Hamas apologists are doing their best to misrepresent the state of things on the ground even though Hamas undeniably started a fight they had no hope of winning.

You're attempting to portray Hamas as "a few bad apples" when they actually enjoy widespread support amongst the population.

The libertarian and moral standard is that Israel has a right to defend itself and its citizens, including the hundreds dragged into captivity. Yes, I think they're ridiculously heavy handed, but again, what's the proper and measured response to what happened?

saying that citizens in Gaza cant collect rain water or will be put to death is DEFINITELY just Israel expressing their right to defend themselves


This post was edited by Crunkt on Nov 19 2023 04:05pm

Ah, interesting a new UN official article here (november 17 2023)

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/israel-must-stop-using-water-weapon-war-un-expert

Israel must stop using water as a weapon of war: UN expert


GENEVA (17 November 2023) – Israel must allow clean water and fuel into Gaza to activate the water supply network and desalination plants in the besieged enclave before it is too late, a UN expert warned today.
"Every hour that passes with Israel preventing the provision of safe drinking water in the Gaza strip, in brazen breach of international law, puts Gazans at risk of dying of thirst and diseases related to the lack of safe drinking water," said Pedro Arrojo-Agudo, the UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights to safe drinking water and sanitation.
The UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) has announced that the complete depletion of fuel in Gaza is having catastrophic consequences, including the collapse in water supply, sewage and sanitation services, telecommunications and healthcare.
“I want to remind Israel that consciously preventing supplies needed for safe water from entering the Gaza Strip violates both international humanitarian and human rights law,” Arrojo-Agudo said. “The impact on public health and hygiene will be unimaginable and could result in more civilian deaths than the already colossal death toll from the bombardment of Gaza,” he said.
The expert warned that as usual, children will be the first affected by the water and sanitation crisis – particularly those under five years old – and women.
“These frequently invisible casualties of war are preventable, and Israel must prevent them,” he said. “Israel must stop using water as a weapon of war.”

“Under Article 7 of the Rome Statute, intentionally depriving the civilian population of conditions of life, calculated to bring about their destruction, is an act of extermination and classified as a crime against humanity,” Arrojo-Agudo warned.


According to UNRWA, around 70% of the population in Gaza is drinking salinised and contaminated water. This condition will escalate swiftly if Israel continues to block the entry of fuel into the blockaded area. UNRWA said public sewage pumping stations, 60 water wells in the south, the two main desalination plants in Rafah and the Middle Area, two main sewage pumps in the south, and the Rafah wastewater treatment plant have all ceased operations.

“People are already suffering from dehydration and waterborne diseases due to salinated and polluted water consumption from unsafe sources,” Arrojo-Agudo said. “Coupled with the massive displacement of thousands of people in recent days, this is the perfect scenario for an epidemic that will only punish innocents, once again.”

UNRWA has warned that humanitarian operations will begin to collapse this week due to a lack of fuel. UN OCHA said fuel is the driver of many aspects of the humanitarian response in Gaza, including desalination, electricity, healthcare and the operation of trucks that bring lifesaving aid from the Rafah crossing into the enclave.

The Special Rapporteur echoed warnings from UNRWA and other humanitarian aid agencies that 23,000 litres of fuel that entered Gaza on Tuesday represented only 9% the daily requirement to sustain lifesaving activities.

“The deaths of children from thirst and disease are less visible and more silent than those caused by bombs, but are equally or more lethal,” Arrojo-Agudo said, urging the international community to ensure Israel meets its obligations under international law.

“The fate of Palestinians in Gaza is in Israel's hands,” the expert said.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Nov 19 2023 04:22pm

Right, in your case the 'combatant' could be a three year old girl in a hospital and anyone pointing out the damning amount of innocent children killed is a Hamas apologist.



The Hamas terrorists are the individuals responsible for the attacks in Israel, not the entirety of the 2 million people in Gaza, and certainly not the actual children that are being killed by the thousands.

Israel has been oppressing the local population for decades and there have been no elections since 2006.

According to your logic Al Qaeda was justified killing American civilians because the US government had widespread support amongst the population.
The Biden administration has been doing some pretty evil stuff. Is anyone justified killing you? Or should that be rejected?



A far superior military bombing civilians en masse isn't defense.

This 'doesn't israel has a right to defend itself' narrative is very careful framing. Who wouldn't say they have a right to defend themselves?
Its much less flattering to ask if Palestinians have a right to defend themselves.
Or "How many innocent children can you kill before its not considered self defense?"



Recovery missions to rescue hostages and targeted missions to apprehend or kill those responsible, for example.

'Do nothing' and 'drop an insane amount of bombs on highly populated neighborhoods' aren't the only two options.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Nov 19 2023 04:38pm

Let’s be real here

Nobody actually knows what the state on the ground is. Somehow the IDF have reduced their on the ground credibility to slightly better than the terrorist organization, that has zero credibility.

The IDF themselves declared 200 dead Hamas fighters on Thursday /Friday, so if the 11-12k figure is accurate that’s an abysmal ratio. Even if we widen goal posts to include angry children, that is still an abysmal ratio.

Maybe the IDF has been trained by American cops.

I don’t think many can honestly argue civilian to terrorist ratio of 50:1 (extreme underestimate) sets the region up for long term peace. But as many have eluded, peace isn’t the goal

Having spent a considerable amount of time in r israel and r palestine i've come to the conclusion that arabs in the middle east for w/e reason have held firmly to the idea that there should be no jewish state in the middle east and no jews unless they are subject to an arab/muslim minority.

I think it's safe to say hamas adequately represents the palestinian movement and there is no solution palestinians will accept short of israel ceasing to exist

welcome back cam! are you still a libertarian? I'm honestly surprised by your views here but it's a welcome surprise