Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 10:41am)

mostly peaceful protest mostly successful withdrawal :rofl:[/SIZE]

But I agree, we can't directly blame Biden for yesterday's suicide attack. Something like that was inevitable once the situation at Kabul airport emerged two weeks ago.



Agreed. What the U.S. seemingly still doesn't understand is that the nation building efforts in the wake of WW2 only succeeded because the axis countries were all advanced, industrialized nations with strong institutions, an educated population and a strong civil society. Germany, Italy, Japan and so on were all first world nations in which all the conditions for democracy were in place, they had just got taken over by fascism by a series of unfortunate events and developments.

These examples absolutely cannot be compared with places like Afghanistan. In the long run, each nation will take its "rightful" place in the global order, based on the country's economic, cultural and societal strength. This is why places like China, South Korea and Vietnam were able to eventually flourish in spite of authoritarian governments while places like Afghanistan or Somalia will still be shitholes 100 years from now.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 12:41pm)

mostly peaceful protest mostly successful withdrawal :rofl:

But I agree, we can't directly blame Biden for yesterday's suicide attack. Something like that was inevitable once the situation at Kabul airport emerged two weeks ago.



Agreed. What the U.S. seemingly still doesn't understand is that the nation building efforts in the wake of WW2 only succeeded because the axis countries were all advanced, industrialized nations with strong institutions, an educated population and a strong civil society. Germany, Italy, Japan and so on were all first world nations in which all the conditions for democracy were in place, they just got taken over by fascism by a series of unfortunate events and developments.

These examples absolutely cannot be compared with places like Afghanistan. In the long run, each nation will take its "rightful" place in the global order, based on the country's economic, cultural and societal strength. This is why places like China, South Korea and Vietnam were able to eventually flourish in spite of authoritarian governments while places like Afghanistan or Somalia will still be shitholes 100 years from now.

Quote (thesnipa @ 27 Aug 2021 19:46)

beyond even investment, and a first world group effort, there's another simple factor. regret.

countries in defeat when confronted with the acts their leaders approved of were shamed into compliance.

hashish smoking layabouts in assghanistan arent ever going to be sorry, they werent compliant with al queda, many dont even know 9-11 happened. they're too poor, dumb, and uninformed to be compliant with evil, and therefore cant regret it.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 12:56pm)

Even worse than that - most Afghans welcomed the Taliban when they were steamrolling the country because the prefer Taliban rule over the corrupt, inept elites the Western occupators had propped up. Stone age islamism quite literally has majority support among the Afghan people. They are not a country or ideological faction who's feeling the sting of defeat - their side literally won the political, military and ideological battle.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 12:56pm)

Even worse than that - most Afghans welcomed the Taliban when they were steamrolling the country because the prefer Taliban rule over the corrupt, inept elites the Western occupators had propped up. Stone age islamism quite literally has majority support among the Afghan people. They are not a country or ideological faction who's feeling the sting of defeat - their side literally won the political, military and ideological battle.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 10:56am)

Even worse than that - most Afghans welcomed the Taliban when they were steamrolling the country because the prefer Taliban rule over the corrupt, inept elites the Western occupators had propped up. Stone age islamism quite literally has majority support among the Afghan people. They are not a country or ideological faction who's feeling the sting of defeat - their side literally won the political, military and ideological battle.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 02:44am)

Jfc...

Kinda funny thinking about it in retrospect - for 4 years, Democrats and the media were railing about Trump's incompetence, unpreparedness and how he was a threat to national security and American interests. They argued 24/7 that we desperately needed to get someone like Joe Biden into the WH to facilitate a return to normalcy and, to paraphrase, "to have the adults in the room run the show again".

And this is how "the adults in the room" run things in practice - an administration headed by a guy with 30++ years of foreign policy experience and the largest military and intelligence apparatus in the world are making such horrendous strategic mistakes that you have to wonder whether they could win a sand castle war against a toddler at the playground.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 27 Aug 2021 20:13)

I can't really blame them. Foreign powers have done nothing but bomb the country and let their leaders escape the carnage with hundreds of millions of dollars.

Their stance is absolutely rational lol

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 12:44am)

Jfc...

Kinda funny thinking about it in retrospect - for 4 years, Democrats and the media were railing about Trump's incompetence, unpreparedness and how he was a threat to national security and American interests. They argued 24/7 that we desperately needed to get someone like Joe Biden into the WH to facilitate a return to normalcy and, to paraphrase, "to have the adults in the room run the show again".

And this is how "the adults in the room" run things in practice - an administration headed by a guy with 30++ years of foreign policy experience and the largest military and intelligence apparatus in the world are making such horrendous strategic mistakes that you have to wonder whether they could win a sand castle war against a toddler at the playground.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 10:41am)

mostly peaceful protest mostly successful withdrawal

Agreed. What the U.S. seemingly still doesn't understand is that the nation building efforts in the wake of WW2 only succeeded because the axis countries were all advanced, industrialized nations with strong institutions, an educated population and a strong civil society. Germany, Italy, Japan and so on were all first world nations in which all the conditions for democracy were in place, they had just got taken over by fascism by a series of unfortunate events and developments.

These examples absolutely cannot be compared with places like Afghanistan. I'm convinced that each nation will, in the long run, take its "rightful" place in the global pecking order, based on the country's economic, cultural and societal strength. This is why places like China, South Korea and Vietnam were able to eventually flourish in spite of authoritarian governments while places like Afghanistan or Somalia will still be shitholes 100 years from now.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 27 2021 01:56pm)

Even worse than that - most Afghans welcomed the Taliban when they were steamrolling the country because the prefer Taliban rule over the corrupt, inept elites the Western occupators had propped up. Stone age islamism quite literally has majority support among the Afghan people. They are not a country or ideological faction who's feeling the sting of defeat - their side literally won the political, military and ideological battle.