Maybe the Israelis can go back to Europe? They have been living in Europe for thousands of years, it shouldn't be hard to re-adjust. Or they can relocate to a place that's relatively un-populated. There are places like that in Africa. I am sure some small islands are empty, too.

Btw, I am 100% serious. I really think if the Israelis insist on moving into areas that already had people living on it, mayhem will result. The middle East is already very densely populated, nobody wants to have to share their living spaces with an alien group. If they really want to live peacefully, my idea is the best way to go.

No doubt. All I'm trying to flesh out though is the idea that the relationship between Israel and Palestine may largely be one in which a "formal border" has never existed in the same way that we might see so clearly between countries, like, The US and Canada. Does the lack of such a "formal border" mean that there "has never been a Palestine"? That is an unconvincing argument to me.

This post was edited by Handcuffs on Oct 9 2023 06:43pm

I used to use that argument when I first posted here. It was always a strained argument though, and it's since been mooted by the 2012 UN recognition of non-member observer state status.

btw.........the kidnapped women are not 'hostages

after targeting civilians hamas biching about their own civilian casualties .........
Hamas threatens to ‘broadcast’ hostage executions following Israeli airstrikes on Gaza


This post was edited by TiStuff on Oct 9 2023 07:21pm

Another aspect of that common strain of reducing Palestinians to their historical grievances as an excuse for their actions is that it robs them of their agency, making them out to be less than human beings. Its no different than arguments surrounding affirmative action and the crime wave. If a Palestinian can go out an commit acts of barbarity and its just treated as a product of Israeli occupation, then no matter what they do they can never be anything but a product of their circumstance, their own decisions and motivations are disregarded. If a Palestinian becomes a peace activist and denounces terrorism, then he's just doing so 'in spite of' his identity. If he makes it into Harvard, he's expected to march in the streets cheering the deaths of Jews, and we just brush it aside and say, oh, that's his race, his identity, its okay when he does it. Which a whole bunch of Harvard student groups just did:
https://forward.com/fast-forward/563776/harvard-student-groups-palestine-israel-hamas/

Treating people as humans doesn't just mean being humanitarian towards them and understanding of their perspective. It also means judging them for their choices and weighing their actions the same as you do everyone else.
And I weigh the actions of the Palestinians who massacred hundreds of people the same as I weigh the actions of the Dakota who ravaged the settlers of Minnesota or the Nazis or the Mongol hordes pillaging the Khwarazmians. I judge them relative to how Israel chooses to consciously give civilians warning to flee and permit a hostile aggressor to exist on its doorstep.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Oct 9 2023 07:28pm

Funny and no we don't.

Nazi's are really flying their flag high these days, holy shit

I've gotten nearly a decade of mileage out of my axiom that "The actual nazis proudly wave nazi flags to identify themselves"

Huawei