Yanukovych had no reason to partition Ukraine because he was lawfully elected president of a unified Ukraine. He was not a separatist leader of a minority faction, he was president elected by a majority and a government that administered the whole of the state. Which he did without being a tyrant or despot, without seizing control of the media, killing dissidents or journalists or employing Nazi death squads or child soldiers.

Zelensky has never had a single day of being a legitimately elected president of "all of Ukraine". He has never held claim or representation of anything but the western half of Ukraine, after a coup d'etat ended democratic rule of the country. At no point did Zelensky have any ability to exert sovereignty over eastern Ukraine, no matter how much he makes that claim.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Feb 27 2023 09:39am

Imagine still ignoring that yanukovych was a Russian puppet who literally fled to Russia after attempting to pass laws that would have turned Ukraine into a Russian puppet state.

This is such a black and white issue it's depressing how many people have fallen for the Russian propaganda.

First and foremost my heart goes out to all of the Ukrainians who are now engaging with the huge numbers of Russian soldiers who are not only killing civilians, but destroying homes, infrastructures, and livelihoods. It's going to take so much energy and resources to rebuild what the a foreign invasion is destroying.
Don't get me wrong. These Russian soldiers are forced to forfeit their lives, and in great numbers, too, for the act of committing war crimes against a free people of a neigbouring country that Putin is focused on. Russian soldiers are also the victims of Russia's tyranical leader/government. DIsheartening for both sides.

well put

Yes it is, Fallacy Man. You can ramble all you want about subjective arguments in an abstract sandbox, but this is what contrarianism looks like objectively from the outside and that's what counts. In politics appearances matter, and discussing politics is... politics. It's what real life is like, although i have a hard time believing you understand what i'm getting at, you know?

Any theories can be internally coherent when not put up against real life observations and associations. Thats why we give importance to what things look like from the outside. To spot motives, conflicts of interest and most importantly, biases that ultimately obstruct people from agreeing on objective observations because of bad faith.

This post was edited by Neptunus on Mar 2 2023 09:45am