at this point dont the nukes alone stave off existential crisis?

Backing of US staves off the conflict that might lead to an existential crisis.

I've just explained the logic of so many of America's foreign policy alliances.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 1 2022 12:19pm

I just think the idea that US backing at all prevents Israeli destructing conflicts is dated. in the 1950s, 100%. all the way up to the 90's, maybe. Now tho the machine is running, they have all the drones, nukes, and weapons they need. they're working with UAE and the Saudis with intel. Iran or any other Muslim nation likely wouldn't nuke Israel due to shared religious sites to the triad of Abrahamic religions, let alone risk being barred from Mecca.

Iran and other terroristic nations will continue to fund ultimately non-issue terrorist groups forever, and none of these pose an existential threat to Israel with or without US backing. If we bounce a billion dollar check to Israel nothing really changes, look at how Russia skated for decades on the threat of cold war era Nukes. No one is invading Israel imo, even if Biden publicly said "America is out of the war game, we're Switzerland now, NATO is disbanded, and any nation that's invaded is on their own".

If the goal is stability, I don't see how changing our relationship with Israel makes any sense for the Middle East. The peace accords didn't happen in a vacuum... Israel's closeness with our country is part of the reason that nation-states there came to accept reality. It wasn't in spite of the United States, it was more because of the United States. So I don't know what the logic is behind abandoning our ties with Israel.

(maybe you posted it earlier, I didn't read the thread)

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 1 2022 12:36pm

Why would I need to look at it on a full time scale, nobody references 1000 AD maps as a guide for where we should draw the lines today - why would Israel be the exception?



So because theyve had a hard time in the past it's okay for them to take the land and homes of other people? Sounds like some two wrongs make a right kind of logic. I'll see if I can find anything about the history of the Jewish people that's compelling.

This post was edited by BrianPeppers on Dec 1 2022 12:50pm

Maybe they should move?

to be clear i do not support a removal of aid. im simply stating that it isn't required for Israel to exist, as many Zionist US citizens claim.

i'm more for a reduction in aid implemented over time, and a serious commitment for them to stop human rights violations or we quickly move up the time table. currently we have zero leverage other than UN reports that go nowhere.

I'm firmly in the camp of "why the fuck would we care" when we have other allies in the region cutting WaPo reporters apart yet we maintain the relationship because of strategic reasons.

I'm not in the Trumpist camp of whataboutism and saying nothing on the world stage(like with the Saudis under Trump), but it's obviously a relationship that needs to continue. We should criticize, privately and publicly, but the status quo should be maintained IMO.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 1 2022 12:47pm

This issue is weird now. Used to be all lefties hated Isreal because muh racism. Now, lefties feel in charge so they want to maintain the power status quo and thus defend American Imperialism via using Isreal as a satellite state of the American sphere of military and economic influence. And emerging neo nazi sentiment means a growing number of right wing hates Isreal due to muh Jews, which to me is just the retarded right wing cousin of muh racism.

we live in an era where Israel literally tells the UN to fuck off when they ask to do inspections of Gaza and other areas, and the UN literally responds "since they wont let us in we have to give them the benefit of the doubt".

the jewish state should have been made out of West Germany, the land of milk and honey has gone sour.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 1 2022 01:09pm