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Apr 23 2022 01:16pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Apr 23 2022 02:03pm)
There are a number of reasons for why it doesn't make sense to give Disney special privileges and tax advantaged status. Combined with the fact that Disney is not entitled to their incredibly unique, tax-advantaged state, there's plenty of room for discretion to be left to the state. In addition, it's not all that clear that there is a valid 1st amendment concern here. Disney's status is contingent on it benefiting the state. If the state's voters conclude that Disney is antithetical to their interests, it makes all the sense in the world to treat them like any other company. The tax issues here are secondary, the state will have to work through them. Perhaps Disney needs to pay more to keep their current status.


I'm not arguing that Disney deserves any special status. I'd think that my previous posts in this thread would have made that clear by now. But that doesn't change the fact that their public position on FL legislation (and decisions to make or withhold campaign contributions based on that position) is protected speech under the Citizens United decision, and the state of Florida punishing Disney based on that protected speech is a First Amendment violation. Period.
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Apr 23 2022 02:35pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Apr 23 2022 02:03pm)
The Democratic party of old was an anti-Bush, anti-Cheney party. They fought against a Republican party led by that constituency for years. I have to wonder whether the perception of Bush/Cheney as great antagonists didn't lead to the present day Democratic party in over-valuing the worth of their present support. Democratic media has been hyping the Romney's and Cheney's of the world, all the while rehabilitating George W's legacy. The sense seems to be that this is a great score, the Republicans are split, and the old enemy is now our friend. All of this without recognizing that that particular faction of the Republican was always the junior partner of Protestant Evangelicalism, and is much smaller today than it was ~20 years back.


The Democratic party when it was anti-Bush went on to push Clinton who made it his administration's goal to push the country further right by directly allying with Republican governors.

Democrats haven't been appealing to the left for the entire time I've been alive, and quite a while before that.

The media is a partisan cheerleader. They are not left by any stretch of the imagination. At best you get centrism on social issues like "maybe we shouldn't be so shitty to minorities", which Republicans then portray as "they want to convert your kids to being trans" and you eat it up by repeating over and over that schools are teaching kids to hate themselves for being white.
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Apr 23 2022 02:38pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ Apr 23 2022 03:16pm)
I'm not arguing that Disney deserves any special status. I'd think that my previous posts in this thread would have made that clear by now. But that doesn't change the fact that their public position on FL legislation (and decisions to make or withhold campaign contributions based on that position) is protected speech under the Citizens United decision, and the state of Florida punishing Disney based on that protected speech is a First Amendment violation. Period.


I'm saying that that's not clear at all. If they can present a credible motive, and they can, it's likely fine.
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Apr 23 2022 02:40pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Apr 23 2022 03:38pm)
I'm saying that that's not clear at all. If they can present a credible motive, and they can, it's likely fine.


Idk man, Republicans loaded up the courts with corporate friendly judges at every level regardless of qualification, so they might get smacked.
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Apr 23 2022 03:15pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Apr 23 2022 04:40pm)
Idk man, Republicans loaded up the courts with corporate friendly judges at every level regardless of qualification, so they might get smacked.


I am thinking back to some of the early Trump court cases, e.g. re: immigration, that were considered "capricious", and lacking due process. If DeSantis checks the necessary boxes, the Courts will likely accept it in the spirit of deferring to the legislative branch.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Apr 23 2022 04:35pm)
The Democratic party when it was anti-Bush went on to push Clinton who made it his administration's goal to push the country further right by directly allying with Republican governors.

Democrats haven't been appealing to the left for the entire time I've been alive, and quite a while before that.

The media is a partisan cheerleader. They are not left by any stretch of the imagination. At best you get centrism on social issues like "maybe we shouldn't be so shitty to minorities", which Republicans then portray as "they want to convert your kids to being trans" and you eat it up by repeating over and over that schools are teaching kids to hate themselves for being white.


Democratic media's schtick that this is fake outrage perpetuated on Faux News doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The Democratic party is driving Hispanic and Asian voters into GOP arms over this. Moderate suburbanites who moved en masse to Biden are now abandoning him. The Republican party has nearly closed the gap on education as an issue. Besides that, there have been far too many direct photocopies of lectures, textbooks, and other class material (including those posted on this forum) to try and sweep it under the rug at this point. It's a gaslit narrative that is bound to fail.

It's a bit simplistic to boil this down to a right / left dichotomy. Democrats have moved further to the right on some economic issues (e.g. medical care), and further left on others. But yes, they're are a very pro-corporate party at this point, albeit one that tries to balance that appeal with promises of massive government largess. I agree, though, that it's a far cry from the sort of intervention they supported in the 1970s. That argument was fought and won by the neoliberal consensus of the 1990s, it's not coming back.

On the other hand, they've moved radically to the left with respect to social policy. Their views on social welfare, law and order, race, and morality simply don't reflect the demographics that they represent. That makes them unpopular, and they've made the mistake of combining that unpopularity with a similarly despised group on the right.
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Apr 23 2022 03:46pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Apr 23 2022 04:15pm)
I am thinking back to some of the early Trump court cases, e.g. re: immigration, that were considered "capricious", and lacking due process. If DeSantis checks the necessary boxes, the Courts will likely accept it in the spirit of deferring to the legislative branch.

Democratic media's schtick that this is fake outrage perpetuated on Faux News doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The Democratic party is driving Hispanic and Asian voters into GOP arms over this. Moderate suburbanites who moved en masse to Biden are now abandoning him. The Republican party has nearly closed the gap on education as an issue. Besides that, there have been far too many direct photocopies of lectures, textbooks, and other class material (including those posted on this forum) to try and sweep it under the rug at this point. It's a gaslit narrative that is bound to fail.

It's a bit simplistic to boil this down to a right / left dichotomy. Democrats have moved further to the right on some economic issues (e.g. medical care), and further left on others. But yes, they're are a very pro-corporate party at this point, albeit one that tries to balance that appeal with promises of massive government largess. I agree, though, that it's a far cry from the sort of intervention they supported in the 1970s. That argument was fought and won by the neoliberal consensus of the 1990s, it's not coming back.

On the other hand, they've moved radically to the left with respect to social policy. Their views on social welfare, law and order, race, and morality simply don't reflect the demographics that they represent. That makes them unpopular, and they've made the mistake of combining that unpopularity with a similarly despised group on the right.


Indeed it is simplistic to boil this down to a left/right dichotomy, because Democrats are firmly right-wing and Republicans are extremely right-wing. In reality this is a right / far-right divide as far as Republicand and Democrats are concerned.

Democrats haven't moved very far left on social policy. I'll again remind you that they didn't even make an attempt to legalize gay marriage, that was done by the supreme court far after it was already obvious it needed to happen. Your "textbook scans" are so often just fabrications that you buy into. In reality if you taught even 1% of what you were claiming just a few months ago is taught in public schools you would have massive uprisings of parents taking down school boards. Yet somehow it only happened when a single person decided to go on a media tour and bring "critical race theory" into the public eye.

Economically Democrats are massively to the right compared to their 70's and 80's counterparts, and that is not because some debate was won. It was firmly because of the increasing importance of corporate expenditures in media and campaigns.
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Apr 23 2022 04:32pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 23 2022 09:15am)
Politicians picking winners and losers based on personal ideology is ok.


So you support Chik-fil-A since they've been targeted based on personal ideologies?
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Apr 23 2022 04:48pm
Quote (fuzzy159 @ Apr 23 2022 05:32pm)
So you support Chik-fil-A since they've been targeted based on personal ideologies?


How has CFA been targeted by politicians (other than just words)? What government action has been made against CFA due to their policies?
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Apr 23 2022 04:59pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Apr 23 2022 05:46pm)
Indeed it is simplistic to boil this down to a left/right dichotomy, because Democrats are firmly right-wing and Republicans are extremely right-wing. In reality this is a right / far-right divide as far as Republicand and Democrats are concerned.

Democrats haven't moved very far left on social policy. I'll again remind you that they didn't even make an attempt to legalize gay marriage, that was done by the supreme court far after it was already obvious it needed to happen. Your "textbook scans" are so often just fabrications that you buy into. In reality if you taught even 1% of what you were claiming just a few months ago is taught in public schools you would have massive uprisings of parents taking down school boards. Yet somehow it only happened when a single person decided to go on a media tour and bring "critical race theory" into the public eye.

Economically Democrats are massively to the right compared to their 70's and 80's counterparts, and that is not because some debate was won. It was firmly because of the increasing importance of corporate expenditures in media and campaigns.


Yeah, we're been over this before, you're living under a rock. The Californian Democratic party was a leader in 1996 when they passed the California Civil Rights Initiative, prohibiting discrimination based on race, sex, or ethnicity. In 2020, they tried to repeal those same (equal) rights. And the reason the 2020 referendum to overturn failed is largely the result of the same minority voters who voted for the referendum in 1996. The party has moved from a position of "equality" to one of overt racialization. We saw the same thing at Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia, where Asian parents (i.e. reliable Democratic voters) have bailed on the party following attempts to reduce the number of Asians admitted to the school via their merit based admissions policy. We see it in the way schools seek to deemphasize achievement and reduce standards for math and science. If you want to live under a rock, it's ok, and I mean that seriously, but don't be surprised when you continue to see widespread minority defections from the Democratic party. It's increasingly becoming a party of rich white liberals. That's not an avenue for electoral success.
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Apr 23 2022 06:04pm
I don't see what's controversial about this bill. If you were adopted by two homo parents, you simply need to live with that and deal with the consequences. Maybe if your biological parents weren't such scumbags, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in. If children are curious about who that effeminate looking man is on your desk, maybe you should take it down and leave your personal life at home. If you want to be a social justice warrior and "fight for your rights," then maybe you should just send the curious child to the principal's office and teach them to mind their own business. There are tons of solutions out there that don't involve indoctrinating our children that LGBT is okay and normal.
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