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#61
Mar 11 2022 12:18pm
Quote (Lebanon961 @ Mar 11 2022 12:06pm)
A couple of other things: Let us not lose the forest for the trees. US is the leader and senior NATO member, and the prime pusher for NATO expansion eastward toward the Russian heartland. I was not talking about Eastern European nations' motivations but the motivations of the US for expanding NATO.


I can totally agree that the USA is the prime pusher, but we still can't force anyone to join our club. Everyone who did so had a reason, including now obviously Ukraine's desire to join. It's not like they don't get to say "I told you so."
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#62
Mar 11 2022 12:46pm
Quote (Santara @ Mar 11 2022 08:18pm)
I can totally agree that the USA is the prime pusher, but we still can't force anyone to join our club. Everyone who did so had a reason, including now obviously Ukraine's desire to join. It's not like they don't get to say "I told you so."


Okay but I am trying to discuss US motivations for expanding NATO toward the Russian heartland.
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#63
Mar 11 2022 01:01pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 11 Mar 2022 00:20)
What if I told you... virtually everybody here also thinks the iraq stuff was wrong....


Not me - fuck Saddam. Dude was a tyrant and I was happy to see that rat bastard dragged from his hole by the Combat MPs of the 101st Airborne Division.

This post was edited by Cascadian on Mar 11 2022 01:01pm
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#64
Mar 11 2022 01:17pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 11 2022 07:06pm)
What is common sense, here? Never upset Russia? Where do we draw the line?


Common sense? Cuba missile crisis where the party that encroached on the US withdrew after the US made it clear this was unacceptable and would lead to war.

Ukraine crisis: We told them during negotiations that their demands are "non-starters" for NATO.
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#65
Mar 11 2022 01:19pm
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 11 2022 01:17pm)
Common sense? Cuba missile crisis where the party that encroached on the US withdrew after the US made it clear this was unacceptable and would lead to war.

Ukraine crisis: We told them during negotiations that their demands are "non-starters" for NATO.


That's twice in one day. You're gonna get disciplined for it, aren't you?
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#66
Mar 11 2022 01:23pm
Quote (Santara @ Mar 11 2022 08:19pm)
That's twice in one day. You're gonna get disciplined for it, aren't you?


Suck it up Eeyore

https://theweek.com/ukraine/1008824/russian-demands-are-non-starters-says-us-diplomat


Quote (Cascadian @ Mar 11 2022 08:01pm)
Not me - fuck Saddam. Dude was a tyrant and I was happy to see that rat bastard dragged from his hole by the Combat MPs of the 101st Airborne Division.


How many innocent civilians died because of air attacks? How many kids died because of outrageous sanctions that blocked basic supplies like chlorine tabs used for water purification? Do you know the numbers?
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#67
Mar 11 2022 01:32pm
Quote (Santara @ Mar 11 2022 08:19pm)
That's twice in one day. You're gonna get disciplined for it, aren't you?


This shit has been all over the news especially on MSM that you tend to parrot so how did you miss it?

Quote
The United States has told Russia it is ready to discuss potential limits on missile deployments and military exercises in Europe, but views Moscow’s demand to bar Ukraine and other states from ever joining Nato as a complete “non-starter”.


And what are you even hinting at, I'm getting disciplined for whooping your ass in debate? Why don't you take a break from PARD you fragile soul ^^ ^^
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#68
Mar 11 2022 01:41pm
Quote (Djunior @ 11 Mar 2022 11:23)
How many innocent civilians died because of air attacks? How many kids died because of outrageous sanctions that blocked basic supplies like chlorine tabs used for water purification? Do you know the numbers?


The world isn't perfect. This harkens back to the age old question, Watch the train crash into 6 people, or divert it so it only kills 1 person. I've been all over the Middle East, and I was part of the invasion into Iraq. I saw first hand how things were and I'd advocate for the removal of the tyrant time and time again.
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#69
Mar 11 2022 01:53pm
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 11 2022 01:17pm)
Common sense? Cuba missile crisis where the party that encroached on the US withdrew after the US made it clear this was unacceptable and would lead to war.

Ukraine crisis: We told them during negotiations that their demands are "non-starters" for NATO.


:rofl:

The Cuban Missle Crisis started because we put nukes in Turkey right on Russia's border. It only ended when we cut a back room deal to remove them from Turkey in exchange for Russia's removal from Cuba.
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#70
Mar 11 2022 01:57pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Mar 11 2022 08:53pm)
:rofl:

The Cuban Missle Crisis started because we put nukes in Turkey right on Russia's border. It only ended when we cut a back room deal to remove them from Turkey in exchange for Russia's removal from Cuba.


:rofl:

That were secret negotiations, the missiles were only pulled out of Turkey at a later date :rofl:

And nothing you said undermines my example of using common sense...

The USSR withdrew and as a result --> no war

Git gud now for once will ya
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