Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 19 2022 02:22pm)

There's a reason it has traditionally worked that way. The more time has passed, the less practical it becomes to make up for the theft or exploitation.

My problem is that I remember myself making several, rather detailed arguments which I considered to be pretty good at the time... but I can't remember what these arguments were. Fucking early stage alzheimer's... ;)

If you can prove that this discrimination still exists today, you might have a case. On the other hand, arguing that redlining which was ended decades ago is still giving whites a leg up in today's housing or job market is a huge stretch.

Also, the redlining argument doesn't cover the other argument you like to make in this context, namely the inability of black families to accumulate generational wealth. Whites who did not live in the U.S. or particular communities while redlining, Jim Crow and all this stuff was still rampant only benefit from black people's lack of wealth in an extremely indirect and negligible way. Forcing them to share in with reparations would be unjust.

Generally speaking, the dilemma of the United States, in my humble, out of touch opinion as a foreign voyeur, is that inequality tends to perpetuate itself, even in the absence of present-day discrimination. The only avenues for fixing this inequality (rooted in past injustice) in targetted fashion would all create new injustices. Which brings me back to my broader point which I have made repeatedly: stuff like race-based reparations would lead to new injustices and are politically toxic. The far better approach to address issues like the black-white wealth gap would be colorblind policies which help all the poor. If blacks are disproportionately poor because of past discrimination, they will automatically benefit disproportionately from such policies. I believe this approach (let's call it the "'Labour Bernie' from 2016 approach") to be more just, more effective and politically smarter.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 19 Jan 2022 21:56)

>If you can prove that this discrimination still exists today
That's been done, but isn't actually a requierment. Plenty of families are still alive that directly experienced it, and who's kids directly experience the reprecussions to this day. Not in theory, but in absolute fact.

It is absolutely not a huge stretch in any way. In the U.S. schools are funded by property taxes. Depressing property prices directly reduces the ability of people in those areas to get a good education.



I think we should just set up a real working government that gets rid of racist policies like zip-code dependent educational funding, gives access to healthcare for all, and guarantees a basic income for all. but that's just me being a bleeding heart liberal. In reality we have to be completely scared of those policies because the party most likely to implement them also doesn't actively hate trans people.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Jan 19 2022 12:07pm)

On a societal level, sure, that's how its traditionally worked, but we can use that to justify pretty much anything. The justification just amounts to "might makes right, I have the might to keep this stuff, so fuck you".

I don't have a link, but we can talk about it here.

I see no problem with taxing "white people who had nothing to do with it". If there is discrimination in the housing market you will have less competition for housing, education, and in the job market. You do implicitly benefit from it.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 19 2022 02:07pm)

Oh, I'm with you when it comes to your disdain for "establishment Democrats". They combine shitty social policies with a corrosive cultural agenda, but don't actually intend on ever pulling through with meaningful left-wing economic policies. All they do is propose big government spending which would ultimately preserve the status quo and see the bulk of the public spending go right back to corporations and their public sector cronies.

It would be a lot easier to put up with their wokeism, group think and all this bs if Democrats in power actually led to sizeable improvements in the economic living conditions of the working- and middle classes, but deep down, most people know that that's not gonna happen. "Establishment Democrats" are the worst of both worlds.



Schools being funded by property taxes is a good argument I hadn't considered. In other contexts (e.g. the class society in the UK), I've long been arguing that insufficient funding for public education is one of the major tools by which the upper classes preserve their position. This is a field in which the U.S. could learn a lot from continental Europe.

Quote (Nibthebarb @ Jan 19 2022 03:18pm)

Given all the overt threats of violence you've levied at the right wing, I'd say you've gleefully embraced "might makes right." You have all but abandoned the pursuit of truth/morals and openly admitted, almost verbatim, the politics is war by other means. Glass houses/throw stones applies.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 19 2022 03:07pm)

Oh, I'm with you when it comes to your disdain for "establishment Democrats". They combine shitty social policies with a corrosive cultural agenda, but don't actually intend on ever pulling through with meaningful left-wing economic policies. All they do is propose big government spending which would ultimately preserve the status quo and see the bulk of the public spending go right back to corporations and their public sector cronies.

It would be a lot easier to put up with their wokeism, group think and all this bs if Democrats in power actually led to sizeable improvements in the economic living conditions of the working- and middle classes, but deep down, most people know that that's not gonna happen. "Establishment Democrats" are the worst of both worlds.

Schools being funded by property taxes is a good argument I hadn't considered. In other contexts (e.g. the class society in the UK), I've long been arguing that insufficient funding for public education is one of the major tools by which the upper classes preserve their position. This is a field in which the U.S. could learn a lot from continental Europe.

Quote (Surfpunk @ Jan 19 2022 09:54am)

Ron DeSantis is too stupid to hold elected office. Which makes perfect sense that he's the governor of Florida.