Quote (Plaguefear @ Dec 11 2021 04:05am)

Hi, your entire premise is flawed because of this bolded line.
Universal healthcare in australia and nz, tax payers cover the costs of this shitty habit.
And it makes complete sense to stop dumb teenagers from making mistakes that ruin their lives before they are smart enough to understand what they are doing.

Quote (Djunior @ Dec 11 2021 08:38am)

NZ: bans smoking.

US blue states:



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/ballot-measures-propositions-2020.html

Quote (Djunior @ 11 Dec 2021 08:38)

NZ: bans smoking.

US blue states:



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/ballot-measures-propositions-2020.html

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 11 2021 03:29am)

... but also far more harmful if consumed excessively. You can be a heavy smoker and still be a fully functioning, productive member of society. The same can't be said about most cases of heavy drinkers.




Simply put, it is not the state's job to prevent people from making bad decisions and as long as the consequences are mostly affecting the one making the bad decision, it actually doesn't even have the right to infringe on personal liberties in this way.
This move by the NZ government might appear acceptable, or perhaps even reasonable, at first glance... smoking is a shitty habit with really bad long-term health ramifications.

But when you think about it, this move represents are very fundamental and imho very dangerous paradigm shift with regard to the understanding of the relationship between state and individual. If people are no longer free to make decisions for themselves, are no longer free to make "bad" decisions, if we accept this idea that the state should protect its citizens from themselves, to reeducate, nudge or coerce them into the behavior deemed desirable by the ruling class... then we have opened the door to nanny state encroachment and set ourselves on a path leading straight to a CCP-style social credit score system with pervasive surveillance of citizen behavior.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Dec 10 2021 07:30pm)

Watch the person closest to you in the world die after a 2 year fight with lung cancer then tell me that.

Quote (Djunior @ 11 Dec 2021 05:38)

NZ: bans smoking.

US blue states:



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/us/ballot-measures-propositions-2020.html

Quote (sirthom @ 11 Dec 2021 05:05)

Any time a right is changed to a privilege (to be taken away) we all lose.
Even if the right is something you disagree with.
This is a dangerous and slippery slope.
Next time it may be something you do agree with.
Laws are there to facilitate rights, not hinder them.

edit: it is not the governments responsibility to protect me from myself.

Quote (fender @ Dec 11 2021 08:58am)

kids shouldn't smoke - even the biggest corporate shill and anti-government hack agrees on that. smoking is both incredibly addicting (we know by now that hundreds of millions went into research making it more addicting as well as keeping the public misinformed), and very dangerous for not only the smoker's health, but everyone around them.
so if your ONLY "argument" is a slippery slope fallacy, if you don't have one against the regulation itself, just shut the fuck up. prohibiting young adults from drinking (in some extremely backwards countries with messed up priorities and values even till the age of 21!) was also no slippery slope to a credit score system, so why would this be?

Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 10 2021 01:38am)

New zealand is so ahead of everyone else

Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 12 2021 05:18am)

Everytime i approach a topic i always look at it in the context of what is good for the long term health and well being of the citizenry of a nation. New zealand takes the win on this one while you're chasing a loss.

If you want to go down slippery slopes we might as well remove labels on foods and products and let people figure out shit for themselves. Scrap the police, fire and military departments so that people can fend for themselves. Scrap the courts and let people duel it out.