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Oct 1 2021 11:51am
Quote (fender @ Oct 1 2021 05:31pm)
how dare they? investing money into the working class, and not just making politics for their donors, like republicans do. because the former is essentially what you people describe as "pork", lol.

this is the basic problem of the republican party. they COULD do the same: actually have some popular policies and appeal to voters by doing stuff for them, but they are fully committed to "winning" elections purely based on ridiculous culture war issues, fearmongering, and voter disenfranchisement - while their policies are tailored to benefit the already rich and powerful.

always funny when you people accidentally admit that, but never connect the dots...


lol leftists caring about people. they only care about votes. get back to germanistan and obey the muzzlimzz.
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Oct 1 2021 11:52am
Quote (SanduLungu @ 1 Oct 2021 13:51)
lol leftists caring about people. they only care about votes. get back to germanistan and obey the muzzlimzz.


I care about people

wtf do you people think 'leftists' is or means....
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Oct 1 2021 12:06pm
Quote (thundercock @ Oct 1 2021 01:43pm)
Well yea....isn't that the point of politics? When Republicans fight for tax cuts and the middle class benefits, isn't that effectively the same thing?

As for the definition of pork, it really hasn't changed in the realm of people who follow politics closely. It's often misused by people in order to classify something they don't like because it's a derogatory term. Perhaps if it's misused enough, the definition will change but I don't think we're there yet. Anyway, it's a pedantic discussion and we should focus on the actual things in the bill that are problems as opposed to just calling it a name.

So, here are some of the things proposed in the bill:
1. Medicare expansion to cover dental, vision, and hearing. To me, this definitely isn't pork (even in the loosest sense of the word) and is merely an expansion of an existing program. IMO, this MUST be paid for by an increase in the Medicare tax because this is something where everyone benefits. Adding to the debt to fund this is unacceptable.
2. Medicare prescription drug price negotiation. This is a no brainer and will actually save tax payers money at the expense of Pharmaceutical profits.
3. Universal pre-K. In theory I support this but there's actually mixed evidence that this will have tangible benefits given
4. Tuition free community college. IMO, it's already cheap enough compared to universities
5. Making the COVID childcare tax credit permanent. I don't support this at all and it seems way too expensive. This is a massive expansion of the welfare state and I'm not convinced we should be giving parents $300 per month for every child no matter what.

There's more to it than the above such as some climate change initiatives (which will undoubtedly include pork in the strictest sense of the word), expanded elder care, etc.

From the above, which do you support/not support? To me, even the strictest of conservatives should support 2 under the assumption that Medicare will continue to exist.



None of those things are bad and probably needed. The problem is, as smart people like Manchin and many republicans recognize is that we can't continue to use funny money to pay for seemingly endless and constantly spawning needs.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, but do you follow the CPI or any other inflation gages? Have you seen what's happening to home prices, auto prices, etc? Do you understand the relationship between expanding the money supply by tens of trillions of dollars and the impact that's having?

Most normal people don't understand and will vote for things that benefit them on the personal level. We all want 1200 checks, free health care, shit I appreciate the 300 bucks I get for my daughter, and most will vote for the people that give that to us. Problem is on a macro level that's not good, it's wiping out savings, it's devaluing our currency, it's forcing many businesses to close shop because they can't absorb rising input costs, and so on.

Republicans as the party that wants to spend less is and has been at a disadvantage here, because there's an implicit bias for more free shit, but it's pretty shitty macro policy making if you can look beyond a few years.

We can't continue to swipe the proverbial credit card for years and pretend that it has no negative impact on our future.

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Oct 1 2021 12:23pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 1 Oct 2021 13:07)
It is important to voters that their children be allowed to succeed on their individual merits, and that racism isn't taught in schools. Meritocracy is very popular. If these issues aren't very important to Democrats, and you're saying that they aren't, it's really a no-brainer to drop the politically toxic racism and embrace the popular policies you say American voters want. The Democratic party made the decision to tie themselves to Ibram Kendi. Unfortunately for them, that means they're going to lose a lot of seats. They need to take accountability for their decisions and learn from their mistakes, and they'll have the opportunity to do that as the minority.

indeed. doubling-down on reintroducing “separate but equal” and segregation and separate facilities based on characteristics people cannot control is not only wrong/evil, it’s completely ridiculous.

to complain that they are unpopular (rightly so!) and being against the people who do not want this in society is to be expected of people like that malignant, reprehensible user

This post was edited by excellence on Oct 1 2021 12:24pm
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Oct 1 2021 02:48pm
Quote (excellence @ Oct 1 2021 08:23pm)
indeed. doubling-down on reintroducing “separate but equal” and segregation and separate facilities based on characteristics people cannot control is not only wrong/evil, it’s completely ridiculous.

to complain that they are unpopular (rightly so!) and being against the people who do not want this in society is to be expected of people like that malignant, reprehensible user


very good post my friend!
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Oct 1 2021 03:18pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 1 2021 11:06am)
None of those things are bad and probably needed. The problem is, as smart people like Manchin and many republicans recognize is that we can't continue to use funny money to pay for seemingly endless and constantly spawning needs.

I'm not sure what you do for a living, but do you follow the CPI or any other inflation gages? Have you seen what's happening to home prices, auto prices, etc? Do you understand the relationship between expanding the money supply by tens of trillions of dollars and the impact that's having?

Most normal people don't understand and will vote for things that benefit them on the personal level. We all want 1200 checks, free health care, shit I appreciate the 300 bucks I get for my daughter, and most will vote for the people that give that to us. Problem is on a macro level that's not good, it's wiping out savings, it's devaluing our currency, it's forcing many businesses to close shop because they can't absorb rising input costs, and so on.

Republicans as the party that wants to spend less is and has been at a disadvantage here, because there's an implicit bias for more free shit, but it's pretty shitty macro policy making if you can look beyond a few years.

We can't continue to swipe the proverbial credit card for years and pretend that it has no negative impact on our future.


I don't think the CPI is primarily driven by an expanded money supply. We've been rapidly expanding our money supply for the past decade and had small amounts of inflation. Supply lines are still fucked which seems to be the primary cause of inflation. Having said that, I still strongly support bringing the deficit down, especially for programs that won't have a substantial impact on our economy/jobs. These programs need to be deficit neutral and I'm glad that taxes will go up to help pay for them. I'm of the opinion that if the American people want something, they should pay for it. I'm okay with borrowing to invest in a nuclear power plant for instance because that will pay for itself in the long run.
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Oct 1 2021 05:36pm
RIP
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Oct 1 2021 05:41pm
Quote (thundercock @ Oct 1 2021 04:18pm)
I don't think the CPI is primarily driven by an expanded money supply. We've been rapidly expanding our money supply for the past decade and had small amounts of inflation. Supply lines are still fucked which seems to be the primary cause of inflation. Having said that, I still strongly support bringing the deficit down, especially for programs that won't have a substantial impact on our economy/jobs. These programs need to be deficit neutral and I'm glad that taxes will go up to help pay for them. I'm of the opinion that if the American people want something, they should pay for it. I'm okay with borrowing to invest in a nuclear power plant for instance because that will pay for itself in the long run.


The "money supply" hasn't increased all that much in the past 24 months. You'll see scary things like "The M2 money supply tripled!" but that's because people moved their money from their 401k, savings, and other investments in that time during the downturn. If you look at M3 or M4 supplies which include things like savings accounts and investment accounts into the mix it went up by like 20% the last two years, but that's only about double the normal rate of about 10% over two years.
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Oct 1 2021 05:47pm
Quote (thundercock @ Oct 1 2021 05:18pm)
I don't think the CPI is primarily driven by an expanded money supply. We've been rapidly expanding our money supply for the past decade and had small amounts of inflation. Supply lines are still fucked which seems to be the primary cause of inflation. Having said that, I still strongly support bringing the deficit down, especially for programs that won't have a substantial impact on our economy/jobs. These programs need to be deficit neutral and I'm glad that taxes will go up to help pay for them. I'm of the opinion that if the American people want something, they should pay for it. I'm okay with borrowing to invest in a nuclear power plant for instance because that will pay for itself in the long run.


Nuclear power is still twice as expensive as fossil fuels.

Where do f***heads like you get the nerve to talk about anything? Just because you went to a rich person school in california?

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Oct 1 2021 05:48pm
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Oct 1 2021 06:20pm
This post is a violation of the site rules and appropriate action was taken.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 1 2021 04:47pm)
Nuclear power is still twice as expensive as fossil fuels.

Where do f***heads like you get the nerve to talk about anything? Just because you went to a rich person school in california?


Coal and fossil fuels are significantly more dangerous than nuclear and kill way more people per capita throughout the process. Nuclear is also cleaner. I know you like being fucked in the ass by Arabs but I don't want to be because I'm not a faggot.

This post was edited by thundercock on Oct 1 2021 06:22pm
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