either just get out stealthily without telegraphing our moves, or the original negotiated timetable. sticking to the timetable and having the Taliban violate the agreement would have put the onus on them (not that it matters in terms of actions, they were going to violate it anyway)

sure the partisans would have lined up to criticize but we’d be out 3 months ago.
biden literally wanted a symbolic photo-op on 9/11. now he gets a saigon 2.0 photo-op

This post was edited by excellence on Aug 16 2021 08:49am

stealthily retreat thousands of troops via massive airbus planes? not notify the Afghan prop govt we're leaving? because if they know the Taliban knows.

leave 3 months ago, they violate, then what? we stay? fight more?

we failed to beat the taliban for 20 years, the idea we could beat them in a retreat is preposterous. they'd either realize we're retreating and move in, or a week from now they'd realize and move in.

they know we're done fighting, so they win. how we leave makes zero difference in who owns Afghanistan now. Their victory cost us trillions, and them millions of lives. but they still win.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 16 2021 08:57am

facts

obviously we let the Afghan govt know about our departure. same with the Taliban. we’ve been reducing troops for years now it’s no hidden secret

by stealthily i mean get our people out first. ensure weaponry and equipment and sensitive material is secured. then you negotiate an imminent withdrawal date

no we leave and stay out. we already mucked it up enough no need to do more damage like delaying the inevitable for symbolism. as you said we spent trillions “nation-building” only for the forces we trained and armed to immediately throw up their hands. its an unwinnable situation so best to leave (again, i commend finally exiting, and think relying on the taliban to honor deals is folly)

it’s all about optics for the current administration, okay fine. usually is for all administrations. but they probably should have considered how this might look, what with the nearly the entire executive branch leadership on vacation right now.

This post was edited by excellence on Aug 16 2021 09:10am

The main problem is that American messaging was completely incongruent with the reality of what was happening on the ground. Biden was adamant that the Taliban would not overrun the country, when they clearly would, and he was adamant that the withdrawal would not devolve into a repeat of Saigon, which it clearly did.



Weren't you saying a few months ago that this is entirely Biden's success story?

What I find interesting in all of this is how some of our so called allies played roles in all of this. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE to be more specific. These fucks pretty much backed the Taliban in all of this and undermined us for years and it seems like we have nothing to say.

Idk what the calculus in all of this is for us but I saw someone point this out a few days ago. The Taliban are Sunnis. To have a country of close to 40 million people controlled by Sunnis neighboring Iran in the grand scheme of things is advantageous to the other Sunni countries I mentioned. You basically now have Iran surrounded by Sunnis. Sure they (Iran) made gains in places like Syria and Iraq but if Afghanistan becomes a cohesive country that's a pretty significant force Iran would have to worry about now on their eastern front.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Aug 16 2021 09:19am

America lost a 20 year war, same way we lost Vietnam. Like fighting someone in a dream that won't hit back, we just got tired of them not falling down, and we're leaving.

There is no Optic win. this war was a failure from beginning to end. It's Vietnam 2.0. Even without the helicopter optics of retreating diplomats we'd have all of the same optics of the Taliban smirking as they ride into Kabul. It was always going to be a shitty situation. It should have been done under Obama, but the can has been kicked forward for decades while each Potus pretended to try and find the right exit strategy, when in fact they just didnt want it in their name.

I believe I said Biden gets credit for ending the war, while Trump gets credit for winding it down. I don't know how that conflicts with the quote I posted.

hm, i wonder why the GOP took this down: