Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 11 Jun 2021 20:19)
The pro-Israel lobby is not a faction of its own. It's securely a right wing movement and has the bulk of its support in the Republican party. The leftists who criticize Israel do not generally want Israel to be dissolved by violence or otherwise, unless we're talking about the fringe loonies.
... and similarly, the rightists who defend Israel do not want the Palestinians to be abused or killed for the sake of it.
Do you think that normal Republicans outside of the fringe loonies would support Israel bombing Gaza if there hadn't been thousands of rockets fired at Israeli cities beforehand?
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And even then the most left people I follow, who are straight up anarchists (far left libertarian) fundamentally acknowledge Israel's right to exist.
I think you're buying into pro-Israel propaganda without realizing it.
In my experience, a lot of leftists ostensibly support Israel's right to exist, but at the same time also support positions which would, in practice, bring about the end of Israel. Prime example: insisting on a right to return for all Palestinians, even though such a right would render Israeli Jews a minority in their own country due to the crazy reproduction rate of the Palestinians.
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Quote (thesnipa @ 11 Jun 2021 16:23)
categorizing leftist criticism of Israel as being anti israel in total and upplaying the mountains to sea narratives as if they're anything but fringe loonies is what gives me that impression.
Like I wrote to pard's latest breakout movie star yesterday, my criticism is not that the bulk of leftists are unreasonably anti-isreal or trying to cancel it - my gripe is with the way they align themselves with such groups. It's hard to portray yourself as "just asking tough question about Israel's behavior" without distancing yourself from straight up anti-semites and terrorism-apologists.
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by my estimation those in the right wing that categorically dismiss any and all Israeli criticism are far more prevalent than those who categorically wish to see Israel defeated and undone in the left wing, by several orders of magnitude. largely due to religious justifications creating an intersectional political alliance between Christians and the Israeli's, also a holdover from the blank check era post Holocaust that people dont seem to be able to let go of, lastly the fact that labelling theory as "racist" is largely ineffectual on many right wing voters and draws eye rolls but "antiemetic" still holds a lot of power in both political spheres. Look just at how large of a portion of right winged voters cheered at the move of the Embassy back to Jerusalem as if it wasn't just a symbolic gesture that had little if any realistic purpose.
Fair enough, and I disagree with this kind of reflexive pro-Israel stance. Evangelicals in particular have talked themselves into a narrative where the Israelis act as an avatar for their own struggles, and it blinds their eyes.
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the right wing uses far too loose of a definition on average by comparison.
Maybe.
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Similarly they view defense of Palestinian human rights themselves as antisemitism and pro terrorism.
Big disagree. Unlike the political left, conservatives tend to condition an acknowledgement of Palestinian interests and rights on an end to knife attacks on Israeli security and an end to rocket attacks on Israeli cities.
This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 11 2021 10:31pm