I suppose we're going to have to continue waiting for the other agencies to make their reports then since we don't have all the facts. We'll need minutes from WH staff meetings, a Secret Service report, etc. We know that Trump was planning on walking to the church well before the protestors were removed so I suppose the question is, "would Trump have made the trip regardless?" I don't think that level of scrutiny warrants the charge of "fake news" and I certainly don't fault media organizations for reporting on it in real time. We all saw what happened and we already have both DOJ and DOI admitting fault and coming up with recommendations to improve safety for both police and the protestors. I don't disagree with your standards on media coverage as they are quite admirable. However, you can't pretend that you're arguing in good faith here because your side is orders of magnitude worse. You need to be consistent with your principles.

I agree with you that the Trump presidency ushered in a new era of distrust in virtually every institution in America. We are significantly weaker because of it.

Or you can just admit you were wrong the whole time and save all of us the trouble.

How am I wrong if we don't have all the information? Shouldn't we wait a couple years before making a judgment? We clearly don't have the facts.

I'm confused. Haven't we already waited a year?

Edit: Confused topics, my bad. Regardless, what more information do you need? The investigation is done. Trump didn't order anything cleared. The media lied (again). Why should we wait?

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Jun 12 2021 08:02pm

The report is done from the Department of the Interior's perspective. We still need information from Secret Service, DOJ, the National Guard, etc. since they were also involved. Did you not read the scope of the report that I linked specifically for your edification?

Imho, it's the other way round: the Trump era opened the eyes of a critical mass of people to the corruption of America's institutions which already existed before Trump came along, and the country is stronger (albeit even more divided) because of it.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 12 2021 08:25pm

I did. The primary concern I have is the relevant facts. It was the USPP who cleared the park. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was their venture, no?

So, it does not matter who all was involved in helping with the construction of barriers. The claim by the media was that Trump had the park cleared for his photo op. This did not happen, did it? Oddly, if you read through the report more thoroughly, the firing of pepperballs was NOT authorized by the incident commander.

Like, there's a lot in the report. What exactly are you seeking to prove, here? The Secret Service did not clear the park. The DOJ did not clear the park. The National Guard did not clear the park.

Is your contention that because these other agencies coordinated with the contractor who erected the barriers that somehow, everything was some 4d chess move by Trump that'll be caught out in the long term? I mean, if so, get real. Do you even believe Trump can play Chess, let alone 3D chess, let alone some mythic time vortex chess? ffs.



Holy crap. We agree.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Jun 12 2021 08:33pm

the most important takeaway from the trump era is that the american era is over

the united states are unfixable and those who are intelligent enough to see this, but dont have the cash to live in gated communities, should get out asap

the states will look like south africa in the future

This post was edited by JohnnyMcCoy on Jun 12 2021 08:30pm

This sounds mostly like nonsense. The fact that a large segment of the people have woken up to the fact that the media is the enemy of the people does not crush the nation.

I sense you are a product of social studies (aka social engineering) as opposed to Civics.

Edit: When you receive responses from people who talk about trickle down economics, yet refuse to pay off their college loans and leave it to the working class, don't believe bullshit about "scams". The scam is the upper middle/lower upper class trying to force the working class to foot the bill for their... "Education". There's a level of duh in some posts in this forum that grow rather exorbitant, but I didn't expect to see it today.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Jun 12 2021 09:00pm

The split of wealth making the country shittier except for those in gated communities is a result of right-wing policies like trickle-down.

We're starting to move away from that as people catch on to the scam thankfully, so I actually think things will get better in the future.