Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 20 2020 07:14am)

To me, you guys sound really naive. We hack adversary governments, entities, firms regularly. This story wouldn't even be a story but it is because the media caught wind of it so the hacked parties now have to publicly address and acknowledge it. Usually, in this type of situation, a corporation would never want to admit it because it damages their public image, scares off investors, scares off customers, etc. For state entities, it's also fairly embarrassing to admit that they've gotten hacked and acknowledge weaknesses.

This hack isn't a one-off event where essentially Russia just hacked us for no reason. In reality, it's just a continuation of the sang and dance we have with various other superpowers for many years but 9/10 times we never hear anything about these hacks for the above-mentioned reasons. So to say we have to retaliate is just to be ignorant of the status quo. We continually attack and retaliate and this cycle has been going on for at least a decade now. Historially we've been much better at it than them but China & Russia have really upped they cyber espionage game in the last decade.

^Icemage

Trump with 2 weeks left in office shouldn't do anything. Whatever response you think is warranted should be thought out and Biden's admin can respond one way or another.

Quote (thundercock @ Dec 20 2020 02:21pm)

I'm not sure why people engage with Bob anymore. The guy clearly isn't grounded in reality and never seems to have a command of the facts.



This is a very clear escalation which is why it warrants retaliation. The fact that we still don't know the entire scale of this attack and that it went unnoticed for months is pretty serious. One of the reasons we are hearing about it is because it was such a large attack. I agree that if it was minor, we wouldn't have heard about it. Anyway, it's NOT ignorant to retaliate because this ISN'T the status quo.

Quote (thundercock @ Dec 20 2020 01:21pm)

I'm not sure why people engage with Bob anymore. The guy clearly isn't grounded in reality and never seems to have a command of the facts.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 20 2020 11:53am)

So the metric of escalation is how successful the infiltration is now? I don't view it as an escalation because cyber espionage is nothing new and there are no rules of engagement of how good you can be or which agencies/companies/etc are off-limits. We should do something and we will do something but I don't understand how this is crossing some line. If we infiltrate the GRU or China's intelligence agency would you think them escalating beyond cyberwarfare with more serious methods against us appropriate?

To me, this is like a boxing match. It's been happening for many rounds, and all of a sudden the Russians came in with a nasty hook, and you guys keep saying it was an unfair blow.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 20 2020 11:28am)

To most people, Trump isn't the center of gravity for which their whole lives revolve around. Like when I read about Solar Winds being hacked thoughts about how Trump felt didn't cross my mind at all because his feelings are irrelevant to me.

It's a hack of a private corporation that had many other corporate clients as well as government ones that got exposed--that's the story. Why would I care about how Trump feels about it or him being 'upfront'? The company needs to be upfront and the media needs to be upfront with the reporting wtf does Trump have to do with the story?

If Trump says the hack was bad and we need to spend more on cybersecurity does that make you sleep better at night? Is that any more than an acknowledgment that the sky is blue?

Quote (IceMage @ Dec 20 2020 02:41pm)

Trump is the leader of America, particularly the executive branch, so when Russia has a very successful hack into key government entities, I think most people expect some sort of acknowledgement. Perhaps some level of concern shown. I understand anytime Trump is absent as a leader, you like to play the "stop obsessing over his absence", but most of us here care about what our leaders do.

What's weird is how Trump acts in response to this sort of stuff, not my reaction to it. In fact, his blatant incompetence is typically a barrier to fruitful conversation.

Quote (Bazi @ Dec 20 2020 12:05pm)

I mean I am kind of confused

I think it is a reasonable assumption that the US also participates in these types of affairs.

No damage was done and it was just observation, correct?

If so, I don’t see how any retaliation is warranted here

Quote (chemoshots @ Dec 20 2020 12:29pm)

a million times over, yes
a lot of this country will not currently believe something unless it comes straight from trump
it matters

Quote (EndlessSky @ Dec 20 2020 06:29pm)

The converse is also true. If Trump does say it, everyone on the other side will immediately disagree.