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Jul 8 2020 04:02pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 8 2020 02:58pm)
I really like how it manifests into "schrodinger's immigrant", they are so lazy and yet they are taking all the hard jobs nobody wants. They are peaceful salt of the earth working class when you talk about how they are catholic, but evil rapists when Trump needs to rally the base on how we need to build a wall.

It happens pretty much everywhere. The good parts are molded into the culture, like how MLK has been whitewashed to hell, and the bad parts are used as rallying points.

I ultimately see conservatism in the modern U.S. as a group of people fundamentally unable to adapt. They have found themselves in an interconnected world that values critical thought and flexibility and find themselves unable to keep up, and with that inability they are unable to affect change. In the before-time they were effective because small communities could rally people to political causes and join together to stop change. However, now that we are interconnected the isolated communities no longer have sway over their members. It's far easier to sway people to action over the internet than it is to talk to your neighbors.


I remember arguing that point with my family in 2016, that Donald Trump tries to run a campaign on anger and hate, constructing this faceless "other" that is easy for people to rally behind because it is formless and allows you to put whatever you dislike into it. For example, if your concern is labor, then they are taking your job, if your concern is safety, they are coming here to hurt you, etc., etc., it's all about creating a definitive "us versus them" mindset which eventually led to where we are now. Like most things, there are ways to sympathize with both sides, and it is easy to understand how people can be incited on the basis of fear and anger. Those things work super well for short-term things like elections, but in long-term things, like someone's entire life for example, we find them to be among the dumbest things you can base any decision/belief on.
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Jul 8 2020 04:11pm
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Jul 8 2020 05:27pm)
Probably piling on to anti-right wing sentiment at this point but I have felt, for a long time now, that folks on the right have something of a persecution complex I never quite understood. Talking to them they always seem to think that "they" are out to "get them" or somehow dismantle their way of life. "They" shifts, it can be whatever, "the media", communists, atheists, "war on Christmas", etc. It's almost like they are so flimsy in their beliefs that any form of push rattles them to their core. This is very visible by looking at the 2016 NFL controversy. The Right was so afraid of any form of dissent that they wanted to remove it from their lives entirely by boycotting the NFL. They are not interested in discourse, entertaining the other side even a little bit.

This statement above is full of generalizations, yes, but it seems consistent in some ways considering that by definition conservatism is not interested in changing and therefore has no inherent desire in entertaining a notion for change.


External locus of control brah. It isn't their fault they have terrible lives, it is this scapegoat. Also morality is what we do to deserve a good life. If they are racist or bigoted they are probably immoral in other ways.

This post was edited by Skinned on Jul 8 2020 04:14pm
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Jul 8 2020 04:14pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jul 8 2020 03:11pm)
External locus of control brah. It isn't their fault they have terrible lives, it is this scapegoat.


It's the spooks.
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Jul 8 2020 04:15pm
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Jul 8 2020 06:14pm)
It's the spooks.


That can be blacks or feds to them lol.

This post was edited by Skinned on Jul 8 2020 04:15pm
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Jul 8 2020 04:21pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jul 8 2020 05:58pm)
I really like how it manifests into "schrodinger's immigrant", they are so lazy and yet they are taking all the hard jobs nobody wants. They are peaceful salt of the earth working class when you talk about how they are catholic, but evil rapists when Trump needs to rally the base on how we need to build a wall.

It happens pretty much everywhere. The good parts are molded into the culture, like how MLK has been whitewashed to hell, and the bad parts are used as rallying points.

I ultimately see conservatism in the modern U.S. as a group of people fundamentally unable to adapt. They have found themselves in an interconnected world that values critical thought and flexibility and find themselves unable to keep up, and with that inability they are unable to affect change. In the before-time they were effective because small communities could rally people to political causes and join together to stop change. However, now that we are interconnected the isolated communities no longer have sway over their members. It's far easier to sway people to action over the internet than it is to talk to your neighbors.


These logical inconsistencies are common in all mainstream ideological circles. The American left has a tendency to simplify conflict roles into "oppressor" and "oppressed", which leads to some ridiculous outcomes where religious social conservatism is both celebrated (Muslims) and mocked (Christians), based on the lens through which the liberal is seeing those respective conflicts.

American conservatism is mostly opposed to immigration on two fronts. One, that welfare is incompatible with open borders. Two, that significant cultural gaps require caps on the number of immigrants allowed in to allow time for the host country to assimilate the new population.
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Jul 8 2020 04:28pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 8 2020 03:21pm)
These logical inconsistencies are common in all mainstream ideological circles. The American left has a tendency to simplify conflict roles into "oppressor" and "oppressed", which leads to some ridiculous outcomes where religious social conservatism is both celebrated (Muslims) and mocked (Christians), based on the lens through which the liberal is seeing those respective conflicts.

American conservatism is mostly opposed to immigration on two fronts. One, that welfare is incompatible with open borders. Two, that significant cultural gaps require caps on the number of immigrants allowed in to allow time for the host country to assimilate the new population.


What about people who equate rising in immigration with crime increasing? Or increased immigration increases to a devaluation of their own labor and products?

I'd say those two combined with the welfare point are the most vocal arguments expressed against immigration with relinquishing white dominance as a significant unspoken reason for opposing immigration.
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Jul 8 2020 04:29pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 8 2020 06:21pm)
These logical inconsistencies are common in all mainstream ideological circles. The American left has a tendency to simplify conflict roles into "oppressor" and "oppressed", which leads to some ridiculous outcomes where religious social conservatism is both celebrated (Muslims) and mocked (Christians), based on the lens through which the liberal is seeing those respective conflicts.

American conservatism is mostly opposed to immigration on two fronts. One, that welfare is incompatible with open borders. Two, that significant cultural gaps require caps on the number of immigrants allowed in to allow time for the host country to assimilate the new population.


True and true. Radical muslims get in power in the middle east and start throwing gays off of high buildings immediately. Egypt was afros and bell bottoms in the 70s.
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Jul 8 2020 04:53pm
Quote (Kamahl16 @ Jul 8 2020 06:28pm)
What about people who equate rising in immigration with crime increasing? Or increased immigration increases to a devaluation of their own labor and products?

I'd say those two combined with the welfare point are the most vocal arguments expressed against immigration with relinquishing white dominance as a significant unspoken reason for opposing immigration.


I haven't seen any evidence to support this, so I would say that they're mistaken. The Democratic party could benefit tremendously by disavowing criminal acts forcefully when they do occur.

I don't hear the second argument as much. It's true to an extent, but it's questionable to what extent illegal immigrants are competing with the native American workforce.
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