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Apr 15 2013 04:34am
In 7th and 8th grade it was a rarity if I made it to the lunchroom with my lunch money.

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Apr 15 2013 05:48am
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 15 2013 06:34am)
In 7th and 8th grade it was a rarity if I made it to the lunchroom with my lunch money.


...ah , I remember the old approach of " hey buddy , you got a quarter ? " . Any answer other than a convincing no meant one was about to go hungry that day . :cry:
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Apr 15 2013 06:06am
Quote (ArcticShadow @ Apr 14 2013 07:42pm)
That doesn't debunk anything.

It is an opinion piece that complains about the evidence of IQ-race being genetic,  while offering no scientific evidence of it's own.


Only if you fail to understand the significance of several items noted in the article, like:

Quote
Here is where Saletan's argument really comes off the rails, even leaving aside the hopelessness of his analogy. The question before us is whether IQ scores are (strongly or weakly) genetically determined in patterns that roughly correspond to racial designations. The evidence for the affirmative is that there has always been and remains a gap between blacks and whites. (Recall that Asians currently score better than whites, but that, as Marks notes, early intelligence tests found higher scores among whites than Asians. One might conclude, as a hereditarian would no doubt be tempted to, that those early generations of intelligence tests were tests of social fit rather than intelligence. On what grounds, in that case, would one base one's confidence that current supposed intelligence tests do not in fact test various other qualities?) Never mind the fact that the black-white gap used to be greater than it is now; suppose instead, for the sake of argument, that the difference in average IQ scores of blacks and whites had remained the same throughout the entire history of IQ tests. Would that finding, at least, lend credence to the hereditarian argument?

It would not, absent relevant information about absolute changes in the average scores of blacks and whites in the same period. Only if blacks and whites not only maintained a nearly constant difference in scores relative to each other, but a nearly constant average score as well, would data about black and white IQ scores begin to support the case that IQ is in part racially determined.
Alternatively, if, for example, the average IQ of whites improved from 50 to 100, while the IQ of blacks improved from 36 to 86, observers would note precisely the same absolute difference in average scores between the two groups at each end point, but a substantially different percent difference (half, in fact), not to mention intragroup changes in IQ that are completely inconsistent with the suggestion that racial genetics determine IQ.


Do you not see the significance of the closing gap? IF the gap was never closing, you'd have your evidence. The fact that the gap is closing flies in the face of genetically determined intelligence. Unless you believe black genetics are also changing. Are you proposing that?
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Apr 15 2013 07:50am
Cause we president now.

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Apr 15 2013 12:44pm
Meanwhile in Toronto.... racism is almost non-existent.
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Apr 15 2013 05:47pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 15 2013 08:06am)
Only if you fail to understand the significance of several items noted in the article, like:



Do you not see the significance of the closing gap? IF the gap was never closing, you'd have your evidence. The fact that the gap is closing flies in the face of genetically determined intelligence. Unless you believe black genetics are also changing. Are you proposing that?


i thought this was what you were proposing, based on your post...
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Apr 15 2013 05:59pm
Quote (dothe @ Apr 15 2013 06:47pm)
i thought this was what you were proposing, based on your post...


What led you to that conclusion?
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Apr 15 2013 06:08pm
Quote (Skinned @ Apr 14 2013 07:14pm)
Read Martin Luther King's letter from Birmingham jail and you'll read seven or eight strong arguments against it.

My favorite is that it is a violation of the ends-means principle, but other strong arguments is the I-Thou/I-It argument, as well as the Sin is Separation argument.

But the worse pogroms have been over race.  In the United States we have an especially wicked past in matters concerning race, literally have tiers of citizenship based off of it, at first declaring that blacks were non-persons, then 3/5ths of a person, then they were freed but not allowed to participate politically and were a lower tier of citizen than white Americans, etc etc.

But America has a long history of WASP privilege in a very diverse nation.

It is unacceptable because more or less the rooster is crowing and the racists are losing their fight for franchised and institutionalized racial superiority.

The totality of all history is the story of conflict.....sides win.


You're talking about someone who preached non-violence who infact beat white prostitutes. Lets not take anything that man says seriously. He was more backwards than almost every politician to date.
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Apr 15 2013 06:09pm
Quote (Santara @ Apr 15 2013 07:59pm)
What led you to that conclusion?


well racial mixing and gene-altering environmental conditions would be my first assumption as to why the gap is narrowing.
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Apr 15 2013 06:09pm
Quote (SocialSuicide @ Apr 15 2013 04:08pm)
You're talking about someone who preached non-violence who infact beat white prostitutes. Lets not take anything that man says seriously. He was more backwards than almost every politician to date.


Ad hominem.
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