Again, you equate all baptism with water baptism.

It says NOT the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.

It's NOT water baptism that saves. It's the answer of a good concience toward God. Yes again you misinterpret what it says.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I think works includes baptism. It says we are saved through FAITH, not of works.

No baptism mentioned here.

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Here it says that it's believing in your HEART that we believe (put our trust in God) unto righteousnes and the mouth confession is made unto what? SALVATION.

No baptism is mentioned here. It's pretty plain. The problem is that you are equating every mention of the word baptism with water baptism. You err. It's not even mentioned in 95% of the verses that talk about salvation. It's always believe (place your faith in) in Jesus Christ and believe in our heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for our sins and confess Him as your Savior and Lord.

This post was edited by xfrodobagginsx on Mar 10 2012 09:53pm

how can anyone give advice on how to get there when they have never been there in the first place?

I can tell you how to get to Vegas from Sacramento but I've never been to either place.

Because we have a reliable source who has been there. God told the writers of the Bible what to write and the bible describes heaven. Jesus was in heaven and came to the earth and was born. He taught the writer's of the new testiment and they are eyewitnesses to His miracles, fulfilled prophecies and resurrection.

Every place I have quoted is talking about water immersion.. The greek word is Baptizo.. look it up

Also, Romans 10:9 doesn't mention repentance. Again.. you can't say "confessing in your heart is repentance!".. because it's not. If it were then it wouldn't mention repentance as a stand-alone (outside of confessing) in other areas of the bible. So do we not need to repent as well? It's not mentioned in Romans 10:9..

You're not going to convince me, and it's obvious that I won't convince you. But just know you are cherry picking what you want to believe, and I am taking it ALL as a whole. I am not saying that baptism ALONE saves you (because it doesn't). But to say that baptism is a "work" and works do not save.. Repentance is also a "work", so is confessing. Faith requires ACTION.. in fact.. it's always used as a ACTION word.

Anywho I'm done here. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to pm me.

sounds like a lot of nonsense without a leg to stand on.

You call a figure of whom there were FUNDAMENTALLY conflicting historical accounts written by others AFTER his death reliable?

Faith is not action. Faith results in action. Be difference. You are adding works to salvation. In your own words, you are debating the scripture, not me. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Baptism is not always water baptism. It means to immerse. We are saved through being submerged, immersed, put in, Christ. Water Baptism is an ordinance, not part of salvation.

907. baptizw baptizo, bap-tid'-zo
Search for 907 in KJV


from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:--Baptist, baptize, wash.

And in your own words you are deleting sections of the bible to fit your ideology. I have given you NUMEROUS scripture references that relate baptism to salvation, forgiveness, and the Holy Spirit. The best you can do is say "baptism does not always mean water". You're right.. the english word "baptism" doesn't. But the greek word baptizo does. The definition uses the verbiage "of vessels sunk". Sorry but I have never seen a vessel be sunk in anything other than water..

And faith is an action. It is BY faith that you confess (action). It is BY faith that you repent (action). It is BY faith you are baptized (again an action).



Weird how the bible always answers things like this..