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Member
Posts: 112,095
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Nov 21 2009 06:13pm
Quote (GTL @ 21 Nov 2009 20:07)
Of course. Being told that reading and understanding the freely available information on your own and seeing for yourself how it relates to the idea presented in the blog is clearly a troll.


Looking into the facts of the situation on your own is clearly the work of clever trollinz.
Member
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Nov 21 2009 06:27pm
Quote (AiNedeSpelCzech @ Nov 21 2009 04:13pm)
Looking into the facts of the situation on your own is clearly the work of clever trollinz.


To be a truly epic troll, you'd have to trick him into to doing it as well... oh wait..
Member
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Nov 21 2009 06:39pm
Quote (Diabolus666 @ Nov 21 2009 06:06pm)
They do that, when they can't comprehend things.


yeah, herd a dude named dialbosl read a dictionary in his spare time

Member
Posts: 112,095
Joined: Jul 25 2008
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Nov 21 2009 06:40pm
Quote (GTL @ 21 Nov 2009 20:27)
To be a truly epic troll, you'd have to trick him into to doing it as well...  oh wait..


I'm not nearly good enough for that level of trolling. :(
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Nov 21 2009 06:50pm
Quote (GTL @ Nov 21 2009 04:07pm)
Of course. Being told that reading and understanding the freely available information on your own and seeing for yourself how it relates to the idea presented in the blog is clearly a troll.


I had a hunch
Member
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Nov 21 2009 06:57pm
Quote (killzagor @ 21 Nov 2009 20:50)
I had a hunch


Seriously, how could you possibly interpret that as a troll? I was suggesting that you go grab the information yourself from the most popular torrent site on the internet and read through it. Do the legwork and try to educate yourself rather than just parroting a single biased blog.
Member
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Joined: Aug 23 2003
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Nov 21 2009 08:41pm
Quote (datajunky @ Nov 21 2009 04:37am)
Not 100% but I'd trust a hacker's information before I would trust a corrupted scientist's :)
It's so sad that monetary gain is the factor in all of this corruption that is leading to so much global misery.

Global warming is fucking bullshit, and we all knew it, yet here we are feeling good about recycling and hating humanity like we are some kind of fucking blight on the planet. Anyone who feels that humanity is a virus or that we are overpopulated, and wants to depopulate should do us all a favor and take the initiative and off themselves.


Honestly, are you Plato's form of a misinformed gullible cretin?
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Nov 22 2009 01:03pm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/share.html?s=frol02s490q72

Skeptic Position = a Political Strategy now

video explains its development


Member
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Nov 22 2009 01:24pm
Quote (EaKAaron @ Nov 22 2009 03:03pm)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/video/share.html?s=frol02s490q72

Skeptic Position = a Political Strategy now

video explains its development


They scream lies really loud and all the monkeys follow.
Member
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Nov 22 2009 02:19pm
Since emails are normally intended to be private, people writing them are, shall we say, somewhat freer in expressing themselves than they would in a public statement. For instance, we are sure it comes as no shock to know that many scientists do not hold Steve McIntyre in high regard. Nor that a large group of them thought that the Soon and Baliunas (2003), Douglass et al (2008) or McClean et al (2009) papers were not very good (to say the least) and should not have been published. These sentiments have been made abundantly clear in the literature (though possibly less bluntly).

More interesting is what is not contained in the emails. There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the MWP’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from our socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Instead, there is a peek into how scientists actually interact and the conflicts show that the community is a far cry from the monolith that is sometimes imagined. People working constructively to improve joint publications; scientists who are friendly and agree on many of the big picture issues, disagreeing at times about details and engaging in ‘robust’ discussions; Scientists expressing frustration at the misrepresentation of their work in politicized arenas and complaining when media reports get it wrong; Scientists resenting the time they have to take out of their research to deal with over-hyped nonsense. None of this should be shocking.

It’s obvious that the noise-generating components of the blogosphere will generate a lot of noise about this. but it’s important to remember that science doesn’t work because people are polite at all times. Gravity isn’t a useful theory because Newton was a nice person. QED isn’t powerful because Feynman was respectful of other people around him. Science works because different groups go about trying to find the best approximations of the truth, and are generally very competitive about that. That the same scientists can still all agree on the wording of an IPCC chapter for instance is thus even more remarkable.

No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

The timing of this particular episode is probably not coincidental. But if cherry-picked out-of-context phrases from stolen personal emails is the only response to the weight of the scientific evidence for the human influence on climate change, then there probably isn’t much to it.

There are of course lessons to be learned. Clearly no-one would have gone to this trouble if the academic object of study was the mating habits of European butterflies. That community’s internal discussions are probably safe from the public eye. But it is important to remember that emails do seem to exist forever, and that there is always a chance that they will be inadvertently released. Most people do not act as if this is true, but they probably should.

It is tempting to point fingers and declare that people should not have been so open with their thoughts, but who amongst us would really be happy to have all of their email made public?
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