awful news. terrorist attacks that killed many civilians. despicable.

i just wish people were consistent with their condemnation of terror against civilian population.

the scope of this attack might have surprised the israelis, but any moron acting like this happened out of thin air, or because palestinians are just bloodthirsty savages, who love to kill israelis for fun, is either dishonest or completely ignorant to the humanitarian situation in gaza and west bank.

i expect a disproportionate israeli response and further escalations. really odd timing as well, since many of the reserves israel now mobilised were protesting netanyahu's government for its latest authoritarian push...

I already delivered my point on the next step: I think the Israeli far right goverment will proceed an asymetric response killing hundreds, maybe more, palestinians.

like i said here:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=102073482&f=119&p=651998530

and in the same way than here:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=102073482&f=119&p=652004282

There's nothing much more to say now... I wish you good luck in bringing anything on the table other than semantic gymnastics.

Wait and see, good caturday to everyone whoever you are.



Oh and if you have a solution to this crisis... Post it !

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Oct 7 2023 11:07am

This is what I have heard, too. Apparently the world Jewish population actually increased following the world war, despite that supposedly 6 million Jews died in concentration camps.

But if you dare to point this out, you are called a Holocaust denier.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Oct 7 2023 11:19am

I asked you what they did as a proximate cause, not what they're going to do as a response.
This is pretty simple logic

The 2014 second intifada was proximately caused by the failure of the peace summit and most particularly the visit by Ariel Sharon to the Temple Mount, with the Palestinian populace believing Israel was going to change the status quo of the Al Aqsa mosque. That's an example. By contrast, operation cast lead before it was started in response to Hamas firing massive volleys of missiles into Israel, which they said was a response to Israel raiding a weapons smuggling / incursion tunnels. You can argue about who violated the ceasefire- Gaza by building tunnels under the barrier for the purpose of kidnapping soldiers and bringing in rockets, or Israel for raiding those tunnels, or Gaza for launching the missiles.

Now I'm asking again, what did Israel do as a proximate cause in this flare-up? By all accounts this was a surprise attack by Gaza and nobody anticipated it, and there was no significant rise in tensions in the past few months. There have been minor scuffles at Al Aqsa when Palestinians barricaded themselves inside back in April, but that was half a year ago and was resolved by Israeli police without anyone being killed, and both Gaza and Lebanon responded at the time by firing rockets.
Since then, its been relatively quiet

So what makes this anything but an unprovoked sneak attack?



The jewish population of the world rose from 7.8 million in 1880 to 16.7 million in 1939. Then it magically dropped to 11 million by 1945. Then it rose again slowly 14 million in 2010, still lower than the pre-war figure and is still at only 15.2 million.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Oct 7 2023 11:33am

Something is fishy, and sneaky.


" Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there. "
Ayelet Shaked

VS






This sucks seriously.

/e once again: a far right, almost fascist, government working hard in getting itself reelected. Up to create its own "snakes".

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Oct 7 2023 11:55am

all i can say at this point in regard of the current situation - the Iranian plan worked. caught us with our pants down and we took it from behind, and we are now accepting it, thinking about it, and planning ahead long-term.

it's not a question of how, only a matter of time.. weeks, months, maybe more.. Gaza will not remain the same, nor do Hamas.

i do feel bad for whats coming to them. i really really do.

we lived through tougher times and we know all about conflicts with our loving neighbors, so this is not new, it's only fair to get beaten while you lower your guard.

I think there is a rationale behind Hama's attack. They might have received weapons that are quite destructive, if not they would not have did what they did.
I think they might have biological weapons as their trump card.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Oct 7 2023 12:22pm

the hamas sponsored whataboutisms and conspiracy theories have finally arrived

sure, these palestinians are perfectly normal people and netanyahu let the attack happen as a distraction

unreal, but we all know that most lefty liberals are antisemites

So I'll point out again- think about it from the Israeli defensive perspective in years to come
Israel has spent billions of dollars on the Iron Dome, David's Sling, the Gaza wall, the tunnel detection, the Mossad human intelligence, etc etc
Their main focus has been on stopping small scale border incursions by minor actors, responding to isolated attackers with car ramming or suicide attacks, and shooting down the missile volleys.
None of it was suited whatsoever to stopping a full blown border raid with a massive incursion by hundreds or thousands of Palestinians flooding into Israeli towns and sacking them

As I was saying earlier, this should immediately bring to mind all the DMZs and fortifications around the world, like in Ukraine, Korea, Sudan, etc. Israel has to think about not just stopping individual terrorists but stopping invasions once again, and what's been shown effective against that is layered defenses and area denial. Large and deep minefields, bunkers, etc. At a minimum, they were shown a critical weakness of completely unsecured highways between Gaza and Israeli cities. Any mechanized troops out of Gaza were free to just strike deep into Israel and return to Gaza again using Israel's own infrastructure. Nothing to shut down the highways, nothing to stop Israelis from being slaughtered on the roads.

Its hard to guess what Gaza will look like a year from now because its hard to guess exactly whats going to happen in the next few days. But once the dust is settled, we may see Israel move from a passive blockade and security barrier around Gaza to instead a full blown DMZ and siege.



From what I've seen, the armaments of these raiders were basically just light arms, machine guns, unarmored vehicles, some RPGs, even just some with knives. They may have taken out a tank with a drone using a HEAT round, not sure about that report, but we're talking little more than the light weaponry they've always had.
As long as Hamas has been launching crude missiles at Israel and contained behind their wall, its been largely an impotent force. But once a thousand Palestinian zealots are swarming Israeli streets, the jews are defenseless and were massacred by guns, knives, or just carried away to be sex slaves.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Oct 7 2023 01:00pm

I agree. But States are rational actors. They must have something of a major support or a trump card i.e Chemical or Biological weaponry to make such a move.
It doesn't make sense that with the advanced military hardware and software that Israel have and they know it very well, they would have made such a move.

I don't think Ukraine would have went head to head with Russia if there is no backing and support.
Something is amiss here and it is going to get very dicey.

If Hamas is that foolish to make such a move without any trump card in their pockets, they are basically giving Israel the entire area for free in the very near future. The entire population will be displaced.
I have checked out some videos and images and I can say Israel will not hold back. No nation will allow such things to happen to their citizens, and if it happens no nation will sit there, push you back and have a peace talk.

Furthermore Israel is on the upper hand here. It is not a Russia / Ukraine situation. It is more like a USA / Grenada situation. There is literally no fight to be honest.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Oct 7 2023 01:20pm