Please try to develop arguments instead of repeatedly attacking other members of this great community.

example:



Let's debunk the pro-russian "Coup 2014" propaganda:

First, let's make it clear that FSB has spent decades spying on Ukraine, attempting to co-opt its institutions, paying off officials and working to impede any perceived drift toward the West. No aspect of the FSB’s intelligence mission outside Russia was more important than burrowing into all levels of Ukrainian society.

Ukraine’s parliament voted 328–0 (about 73% of its 447 members) to remove President Viktor Yanukovich, who abandoned his Kiev office.
The "president" had to flee to his mother Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych#Fleeing_to_Russia
On a side note:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky
Titushky were employed by the Yanukovych government with a reported daily pay of 200 hryvnia. Some of them were also suspected to be illegal formations of combat troops carrying concealed pistols. Their aim was to intimidate and disperse demonstrations by opponents of the government, and attack participants and representatives of the media. The term is sometimes translated as "Rent a Thug."

To summarize:

These 3 points are demolishing the "coup" designation made by russian propagandists:

- Yanukovich deliberately lied about joining EU / investments to get elected, then later turned back: protests were perfectly justified
- Yanukovich pro-russian secret police used paid thugs in an attempt to turn the protests into violent riots to proceed (and excuse) repression
- Constitutional vote: Ukraine’s parliament voted 328–0 (about 73% of its 447 members) to remove President Viktor Yanukovich


/e to finish it off:

4 years before 2008 Russia tried to assassinate the elected Ukrainian president because he was too much "independent" ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoning

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Oct 6 2023 01:04pm

Please try to develop your English vocabulary and communication skills before attempting to debate geopolitics in an English forum. Ty.

I don't think it is fair to accuse United States that they or their government entities is responsible for the Coup in 2014.
They were just doing some exercise and jogging around in Ukraine and the Coup happened out of nowhere.

They were also jogging around in Hong Kong in 2014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests

But the peak of running a marathon came in, but I have to say the Chief Executive in Hong Kong Carrie Lam did something really stupid.
And the central government was darn pissed but they decided to take a gamble.

But NeoCons and Neolibs are just jogging

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%932020_Hong_Kong_protests

Also important to note.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Doctrine

Domino effect was partly successful. But they were jogging.

This post was edited by Hamsterbaby on Oct 6 2023 01:07pm

This is too grammatically correct to be your own opinion. Did you just copy paste a WSJ paywalled propaganda piece trying to deflect from the argument and invoke "whataboutism" argument? You will need to try harder pierre. I thought you didn't like WSJ? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/russia-fsb-intelligence-ukraine-war/

Please come back when you can debunk the argument that coup did not remove a democratically elected government and was not supported by any outside forces.


PS: I saw you just removed from PARD for a few months with your pocket moderator complaints. If you cant handle the heat pierre, dont play with fire. You know its dangerous for you to argue with me - you might get publicly humiliated again as you don't read the links you post.

I mean it depends what we did doesn't it? If we just kind of cheer and say "you go guys" then obviously that doesn't do much. If we gave them weapons and sent in US soldiers to facilitate it, then that's way worse.

So I'm intersted in what the exact details are of what we did, because that's important.

I've seen some people discuss it and they point to things like "McCain made a speech supporting it". Which is like... okay? Please source some actual material support because cheerleading doesn't absolve Russia of anything.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Oct 6 2023 01:10pm

No No No. I told it's not USA fault.
They were just exercising that's all.

I see him down there. I'm looking forward to him coming back with a well sourced list of American interference in Ukraine in 2014.

Russian police state was in Ukraine since decades, they deeply infected the whole place and trying to argue about a "coup in 2014" is... Pathetic.
Honestly I want Ukraine to be free, along with Russia. And I want a free Russia to join the EU block like Germany joined the coal & steel community in 1952.

Personal attacks won't save you. I am "removing" nobody and I don't have anyone "in my pocket(s)"; on the contrary. Watch out how i got warned when i posted about abortion problem.

But... I guess moderators aren't that stupid and at some point malicious posters can't "play with the rules" anymore. This is the other side of the coin.

Sure, two last freebies for the evening. But you really have to get up to speed buddy.

A classical paper is written by John J. Mearsheimer - Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault: The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin in the aftermath of 2014 events. It is accessible on JSTOR with a free account https://www.jstor.org/stable/24483306?read-now=1&seq=2#page_scan_tab_contents. There is also a youtube lecture of the same guy with the same title. Some people might discount him as Putin-apologist (to which I don't agree as his body of work outside of Russia/Ukraine conflict speaks for himself).

Another great piece is body of work available before 2014 revolution hinting that certain western governments were overly invested in promotion of NGOs to establish a society and steer elections to where they wanted the outcome. Here is an article from 2008 on the results of Orange revolution and criticism as to why it failed.
https://commonweb.unifr.ch/artsdean/pub/gestens/f/as/files/4760/39746_174023.pdf


There is also a highly suspicious recording of Victoria Nuland with US Ambassador of Ukraine in 2014 being circulated where they go over who will be running the "new and democratic government". Since everyone they mentioned got their positions - it seems quite strange as to what influence these two had on democratic processes of a sovereign country.

This post was edited by Malopox on Oct 6 2023 01:28pm