Human history is full of people slaughtering other people.
What the Huron did to the other tribes is my personal favorite.

And yes in current year+6 they are more privileged than anyone else(this doesn't excuse the brutality of the past but it is a fact)

If modern farming is so great why does the American farmer rely on government subsidy to eke out a living?

Then they have a choice to make. Do they want to leave their family behind and move to a different place where they have a better chance of making a living? A lot of migrants do this, and as difficult as it is for them emotionally (they are separated from their family), it is a legitimate option. If they choose to stay in a hard-to-survive-in place just because they want to be closer to their family, they can. But note the word "choose". You know what this word means, right? That's right, they are making a choice.

Literally no one is forcing these people to stay in those places. Stop making it sound like the government is forcing them to live there. It isn't. As for whether the government should make special accommodations for them to live more comfortably there....well, I am willing to hear what you have to say.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Jul 30 2023 08:46pm

Comparing immigrants from third world countries.

Oh my God did you miss the entirety of how this conversation started. It was that western countries provided access of which I said no not all places and now you're comparing immigrants from third world countries.

Are you remotely capable of maintaining a thread of thought and how what you just said completely promotes my own stance.

Well you got that them there immigrants who leave their countries to come to Canada so them natives should choose to leave Canada to come to Canada.

Yes I am for an increase in subsidizing food in highly remote places where people have been compeltly marginalized and heavily discriminated against not even 30 years ago. And I am furthermore for the increase in food programs as well as better monitoring of the subsidy allocation by nutrition north to ensure its not being applied to things like lucky charms like it is now. Obviously food is essential to health and also contributes to performance in school and if you're going to break the cycle you need to start as early as possible so food programs should exist for youth for the enterity of their education, go to school and get high quality food. But it right in the District Education Authorities budget. Run skills and cooking training at the same time. The vast majority of the North's GDP is from mining so you're killing two birds with one stone, those people will be educated to become camp cooks which is a decent living and In turn you have working adults generating wealth and buying food for home.



This post was edited by SBD on Jul 30 2023 09:02pm

Something of a non-sequitur. Modern farming sustains an 8 billion global population that would otherwise starve, but farming as an industry is usually practiced with cut-throat margins. There's a lot of waste in farming subsidies, but at the same time food production is something most politicians don't want to mess with.

Why do you thinks schools should provide food to students though. Shouldn't it be the parents' responsibility to feed their kids? Schools should be about providing education, nothing else.

Also, the issue that we were arguing about, the thing that started this whole thing, is whether people are forced to live in those places. I say they aren't, but you disagree. You think that if the government doesn't make it easy enough for people to leave, that means the government is keeping them there. This is false.

False? Do you even think people have the disposable income for a flight here, it costs upwards of $7,00 to $9,000 dollars round trip to get to places like Toronto. And where are you housing these people. Nearly 75% of people live in social housing and don't have disposable income to rent. Again, you have no grasp on then socioeconomic status, and you're just tossing the bottom of the barrel arguments thats applicable for every safety net in Canada already.

Because parents cant afford food and you have rampant other issues that came with the fur trade and gathering people and completely taking way their way of life, like mass addiction to alcohol and tobacco. To ensure children receive food, do it at the school. Most southern schools have food programs.

Again, if you had any actual inkling to medians, averages, etc. you could actually speak to the subject matter at hand rather than going for generic talking points that might be said over a TV dinner.

We can probably end here. You and I both know you're actually a troll, probably also an idiot outside your online persona but regardless a troll on here. No one litters subs with such dumb shit and is actually genuine. No one drops gems like , UMM should I feel unsafe living in a high building vs. a short building.

This post was edited by SBD on Jul 30 2023 09:40pm

I already know these people are poor, you don't need to repeat yourself. However, wouldn't it be the smarter thing to do to save up money for a one-way ticket, or maybe they can drive down, and go to a city where there are more job opportunities and lower costs of living. If people genuinely want to improve their economic situation but are held back due to lack of funds, then maybe the government can supply some one-day tickets, and provide temporary rental subsidies in the new city till they get a job and can stand on their own two feet. Your argument seems to be, "I am poor, so the government has to take care of me" and I have to disagree.

I also find it hard to believe that people can afford extremely expensive things like fresh chicken and rice in those places but they can't afford a 700-dollar plane ticket. In fact, come to think of it, how do they manage to survive at all? If they are poor and eating chicken and rice requires a 6-figure income, these people should have starved to death a long time ago.



Whose fault is it that these people are addicted to alcohol and tobacco? Is it theirs or the government's? And also, if people can't afford to feed their kids, then maybe they shouldn't have any. Why should my tax dollars go towards feeding someone else' kids, whom they fail to provide for but insist on pumping out?

Question for you: whose responsibility is it to feed kids? Is it the state's, or their parents'?



I am talking about the subject matter. I just don't go in the direction that you would have liked. It doesn't mean I don't have any idea,



You need to chill. Just because I disagree with you, it doesn't mean I am dumb. Besides, you are the one who genuinely thinks being well-read and/or having a lot of knowledge in one's head means one is smart. You are the dumb one lol.



What's wrong with wondering about one's safety lol. It's like every little thing I say just gets under your skin, and I don't even need to bring out the troll. You are allowing yourself to be trolled by normal discourse, lol.

This post was edited by JessiWan on Jul 30 2023 10:48pm

I am a carnivore you touch my cows ill shit on your carrots mkay?

I'm quite confused by your post to be honest as I see many arguments intertwined and it sounds like a rant going on tangents rather than an argument. Do we all want to live a virtuous life and feel good about ourselves? Absolutely. Do we want to be depressed about injustices of the world and things we cannot change? No and worrying about those does nothing good for you.

I tried to make this personal so the message would land across better. Its not about being homeless or living in the slums. Its about being hungry and malnourished. Even homeless and the slums have food to eat in 2023. It might not be sexy and might not be every day, but people are not dying of starvation, at least in the developed world. Modern society has almost eradicated hunger in the developed world. There are some areas still ravaged by famine (e.g. areas affected by Tigray war that ended in late 2022, nobody noticed that because Ukraine was hot on the stove distracting everyone from millions dead not far from luxurious resorts of UAE and Egypt), however these occasions are thankfully becoming fewer and fewer as decades go by.

Sustainable energy and Sustainable agriculture are something different from "universal food for everyone as human right". Humanity has tried universal food rights already, albeit farming methods weren't as good back then with the soviet communism ideology whereby farmers were collectivized to provide "food as a basic human right" and this resulted in the worst famine in Europe in centuries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933). Again, universal human right access to a resource that required human input and labor is tricky to achieve and would probably never happen unless we fully automate this process in hydroponic farms (even then you would still need a skeleton crew of technicians maintaining those farms). How do you personally see this happening?

Manual labor and being automated or being powered by renewable sources of energy are three different things that all need to be discussed one step at a time. A lot of agriculture is extremely difficult to automate. An example is growing coffee whereby coffee usually grows in mountainous regions where access is inhibited and making a serviceable machine that could harvest coffee beans from a tree is an insurmountable engineering challenge. Eg yergicheffe coffee variety from Ethiopia so loved by Italians and their Illy powerbrand. The only country that managed to go in that direction is Brasil with their arabicas as their coffee growing areas are located in on a mountainous plateau which allows machinery to work and provides relative ease of access.

Being powered by sustainable source is also a very difficult (engineering) challenge still as you would need to first generate renewable electricity somewhere nearby, figure out a way to store it in some battery systems and then make farming equipement into EVs that are easy to maintain without bringing them to a service center. Eg John Deere - arguably worlds leading agricultural machinery manufacturer - had a major outcry when they introduced DRM to their farming equipment making farmers unable to fix their tractors in the fields with portable tools and transporting a broken tractor out of a field and 300km away to a John Deere service center is an altogether not a fun logistical challenge nobody wants, especially if you are in the middle of a harvest. EVs introduce a complexity to farming that overall increases the cost of production, at least at the level of EV development in 2023.

We have discussed growing food and trading (in my previous post) so now production: modern thinking about food means producing food that can be transported and stored easily (refrigeration, preservatives, preprocessing). This is a big step forward from e.g. what they do in rural Asia where they transport live chicken which you then need to butcher yourself if you want your chicken nuggets for dinner.


Overall food processing requires addition of stabilizers, preservatives and other chemical additives (sugar, salt, oils, coloring) to extend its shelf life so it can get to you from factory. Pickling has been around for centuries and is widely practiced in many societies as pickling was invented before refrigeration. Freshly butchered meat will go rancid within a few days without refrigeration or preservatives, yet you can get supermarket stabilized and pasteurized sausages that can last for months in your fridge without developing dangerous bacteria such as botulism. I choose stabilized sausages without botulism over logistical nightmare that is figuring out how to ensure food safety of fresh produce without refrigeration or modern processing methods.

There are very little alternatives to power agri machinery at the moment besides diesel. Its mostly an engineering challenge that I hope will get solved with solutions appearing some time in the future on the market that are as good in maintenance as ICE diesels and are as rugged as ICE. There is nothing worse than having your EV break down in a field due to a short circuit caused by a flood rain with no ability to revive it. You can revive a modern tractor with a seized engine if you are a qualified mechanic with some basic tools (and another tractor to pull it).

"Low prices of food has allowed majority of population take food safety for granted and focus on more "important" things like hating their neighbors, racism, gender studies and arts." - this is literally a phenomenon observed over the past 100 years with urbanization taking rapid place as society does not need as many farmers anymore as before as smaller amount of farmers can now feed a bigger amount of people - allowing the rest of the population to pursue other ways of adding value to the society and trading the output of their work back for food, shelter and healthcare. Consider that world had 2bn people in 1940s which grew to 8bn in 2023 yet the amount of farmers in the western world has reduced drastically while providing more food than ever. Again, I personally prefer dying from complications of old age due to ingesting pesticides over my lifetime than dying from famine at the ripe age of 25 like the Irish did in 1800s.



Being dumb and disadvantaged with regards to ones health at the age of the Internet is quite an inexcusable trait to have as nobody prevents people from learning basics of nutrition science on your own and planning your diet accordingly. Ultimately its all about the will and maturity to resist fast carbs and live a healthy lifestyle which consists of physical movement, avoiding known hazards like ingesting tide pods. I have linked a very long an interesting movie that delves deeper into Sugar and the way it affected modern civilization. It did increase obesity overall, however our brains function best on sugar so that allowed for more brain power that enabled the progress we are seeing around us. Again - I personally is of firm belief that being morbidly obese is a life choice that I personally struggle to respect. Qualified medical help is available to help people that took a wrong turn down the road in their life somewhere.

Having said that as posters above me have commented, choosing to buy bulk rice/legumes, chicken and broccoli can go a long way for a lot of people although this does decrease your food variety and excitement.

Here is a great national geographic deep dive into modern farming methods practiced e.g. in The Netherlands which is considered at the forefront when it comes to technological development of agricultural production. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/article/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming

/edit cba fixing typos, please excuse them, I'm turning dyslexic I guess.

This post was edited by Malopox on Jul 31 2023 06:28am