Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 16 2023 09:13pm)

OK, so now we're getting places.

estimates place Hamas soldier count at 30,000.

so in your plan the IDF raids Gaza, and just hypothetically of course, kills something like 25,000 Hamas soldiers. 25,000 of people's fathers, brothers, sons, friends.

and this doesnt radicalize Gaza?

and those 25k soldiers aren't instantly replaced by people upset their family and friends just got killed? (hydra heads)

and in these raids how many IDF soldiers die, let's say 1 IDF for every 10 Hamas. so that's roughly 2500 IDF soldiers, and of course as the raids go on Hamas figures it out and sets more booby traps, gets more prepared, sets more guards, etc. so really 1:10 is an unlikely ratio. but we're not realy striving for minimal IDF deaths, there's been 370+ so far, we're just laying out numbers.

i remain unconvinced that this radicalizes gaza any less than what's currently being done. and again, i dont support what is being done.

as to the rest of your plan, provide supplies and help people evacuate. they're currently doing that with a daily ceasefire, and armed guards for evacuatese. and they've supplied the hospital they just raided per reports.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 16 2023 10:00pm)

I highly doubt the radicalization process happens over night. People take time to grieve, process, and then hate to fester to move them to action.

What's currently happening of course will cause more people there to hate Israel (most probably already did, just not enough to say fuck it and go snackbar) and then will probably fuel the next wave of Hamas recruits. That's why these wars happen in spurts, with flare ups, call it every few years.

Israel's logic in what they are currently doing, at least the way I see it, is to so damage the Hamas organizational structure that it would become extremely difficult to rebuild. Only real way is scorched earth tactics. I think they think if they succeed, they can disrupt this endless cycle of every few years having mini-wars.

Reality is there's no ideal solution here. They either go in and accept the high casualties or they don't dismantle the Hamas organization. If they don't dismantle then the cycle above is repeated. If they somehow succeed maybe that cycle is broken.

Quote (ferdia @ Nov 16 2023 10:01pm)

to be fair you have a good argument here.



they are most likely going to do a Ukraine -

i.e. Ukraine said no to negotiation last year (thanks boris) and now they are in a situation where any new negotiation is going to be worse.

for Israel, they are damned by the International Community, but their chances of wiping out Hamas while wearing sensitivity gloves are hopeless, ergo, they are going to get called an apartheid terrorist state, and they wont be able to achieve their goal of getting rid of hamas.

basically a shit show, damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 16 2023 04:00pm)

I highly doubt the radicalization process happens over night. People take time to grieve, process, and then hate to fester to move them to action.

What's currently happening of course will cause more people there to hate Israel (most probably already did, just not enough to say fuck it and go snackbar) and then will probably fuel the next wave of Hamas recruits. That's why these wars happen in spurts, with flare ups, call it every few years.

Israel's logic in what they are currently doing, at least the way I see it, is to so damage the Hamas organizational structure that it would become extremely difficult to rebuild. Only real way is scorched earth tactics. I think they think if they succeed, they can disrupt this endless cycle of every few years having mini-wars.

Reality is there's no ideal solution here. They either go in and accept the high casualties or they don't dismantle the Hamas organization. If they don't dismantle then the cycle above is repeated. If they somehow succeed maybe that cycle is broken.

Quote (Goomshill @ 17 Nov 2023 04:05)

And yet, lets say the endpoint is that Israel establishes a DMZ, with a minefield and shoot to kill orders. After annexing large swathes of north gaza to keep a buffer with sderot and the coastal outposts, and keeping the kibbutzs evacuated like they are now. That's what I've been saying is the most likely outcomee. Now, can they achieve a strategic aim of neutering Hama's ability to kill jews, without a scorched earth campaign to raze Gaza to the ground? Hamas or islamic jihad or other militant organizations will retain control of Gaza when Israel withdraws, but if they're locked behind a minefield, what threat do they really pose? We've seen what a hundred thousand rockets can do, which is next to nothing

Quote (Many_Names @ 17 Nov 2023 14:12)

Its irrational to accept being rocketed on daily basis

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Nov 17 2023 07:20am)

One state Solution. Make it simple. Solve international condemnation and problems bit by bit after.

Quote (Bananii @ 17 Nov 2023 15:17)

And where shall they go? No country on earth want those israelis..

Maybe give them an island? Like new seeland or smth, at the end of the world. Where they cant stick their huge noses into others matters aka trying to scam them.

But there not many places left, where "the chosen land" could move to.

What about that trash island in pacific? Cant we drop them just there? I mean trash belongs to trash no?

What you think ^many_names ?

And you ^hamsterbaby ? :D

€: dont forget this discussion is 2500 years old lol

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Nov 17 2023 08:22am)

Sinai Peninsula or Florida.

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 17 Nov 2023 08:20)

One state Solution. Make it simple. Solve international condemnation and problems bit by bit after.