Well I think that's relatively simple. Divorce / separation through the early 1900s / mid 1900s was almost nonexistent because. It was a real effort regardless of social standing and if everything even more so for poor people. Borderline impossible for poor people actually. And actually using 1950s that's a good date, its only after the 1950s separation became vastly easier through the courts which correlates nicely with the rise of separation in in the 60s and as it became easier and easier it only went higher.

Now you could take issue with the governments change and add that to your social paradigms argument and it could be valid I suppose but then that opens another argument of how much government / state / church involvement you want in life and does that encroachment on personal choice and freedom outweigh the consequences that are known to come with single parenthood and then where do you draw the line in the sand again.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 5 2023 08:03am

My cage is bigger than yours and we are separating children from their parents.

166,555 views Jun 18, 2018

Footage shows migrant families being held in large cages as Donald Trump's zero-tolerance immigration policy takes effect. The US president has received heavy criticism after it was revealed that children were being separated from their families at the southern border

Sorry, not buying the argument that easier access to courts is the reason why people didn't separate. You don't need the court to walk out on your husband and not go back to him. At best, that's a correlation, while rise of feminism, women working, etc. are of far greater importance and actual drivers. The reason a women put up with her husband in 1940s vs what we see today is she didn't have the economic opportunities to earn and support herself, but also because of reasons like welfare, like feminism and so on.

And I don't care to have the latter argument. Personal choices and freedom have consequences, which most in the modern world don't want to acknowledge. Imagine telling a modern day, college educated woman that the rise of feminism is a key macro factor that has led to the breakdown of the family unit. No one wants to hear that truth and it's one of those things you don't speak about in public. Western society has made that bed and is now reaping the consequences, it is what it is.

They would never be parted if they didn't go where they don't belong and are not wanted.
Hope this helps.

I don't need you to buy it. Its plainly clear there's a spike right in the 60s and that is immediately following changes making divorce easier and no one wants to make that argument obviously who chooses to side with the rise of feminism, women working etc. being a driver to the downward spiral of society, then you'd have to just admit you're piece of garbage that thinks your choice is superior to those of the opposing sex and you're happy with limiting their options in life "for the betterment of society". Might as well toss a rag on your head and move on over where that thought is best fitting if were being honest.

I mean you want to look at early mid 1900s and disregard all the changes North American has seen, its doubled its population, jobs are in significant decline for labour positions compared to then, the barrier to higher education cant be higher at this point with the cost but manufacturing jobs are long gone to robotics, real living is completely out of the question for lower class. This isnt the day of a factory job giving you a good life and a pension.

But I mean, women got rights and that's what caused all this! Come on.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 5 2023 08:59am

Yes,it's called being a man you should try it sometime

You know what else happened in the 1960s? The great society programs by LBJ which is generally agreed as the single most impactful welfare expansion in this country. But sure, it's the courts.

I said I don't care to have the latter argument, yet 3/4 of your reply is focusing on that.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 5 2023 09:16am

You're trying to have the welfare discussion though while omitting major factors in the changes of the USA since the early and mid 1900s. There's no point in having that conversation then.

You can simply state the points you want while ignoring everything else and make any theory work. There's no difficulty to that and that's what makes the current situation so difficult to discuss is it's a multifaceted issue. But for many they're happy to boil it down to black people bad, giving women rights bad, the good old days when men were in charge, women knew their place beneath us and the blacks were segregated, those are the days to compare and aspire to!


In the end were just two people slamming our heads, we know there's a problem and the hole is deep. How we climb out now, neither of us are politicians or changemakers for a reason because neither of us know. Its an issue I keep close to heart though because its rampant in the Arctic and honestly much of the same but different reasons for how it ultimately came to be with striking similarities though.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 5 2023 09:37am

No, I'm simply pointing at the very obvious link between poverty and single parent homes. You then want to up-end that causal factor and re-frame it as single-parenting is caused by poverty. I point to historical example that shows that doesn't hold true and we end up at this point where you think access to courts is somehow the main reason why that wasn't the case in the past.

Law creation is largely reactive rather than pro-active. People like to smoke weed, government can't stop people smoking weed and is a waste of time and money, so what happens is the laws reactively get changed to reflect the updated social norms.

The laws around getting a divorce easier also were reactive in nature, something that was already happening and in demand. It's not as if women woke up one day in the 60s and said oh wow it's much easier to get a divorce now because courts have become streamlined, maybe I'll go get one. When in reality the confluence of factors (feminism, rapid expansion of welfare, the general freedom movement of the 60s with hippies, more women entering the workforce and college, and all that) is the elephant in the room that actually resulted in more single parent homes.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 5 2023 09:43am