It goes back to the simple fact that Israel has a tiny population and is surrounded on all sides by enemies and therefore it has to do the whole 1:10 or 1:100 or 1:1000 ratio just to keep up. whether it be hostages or fatalities. and all of that long term will just piss everyone thats not israeli, off.

Per idf on Bloomberg

~11,000 Palestinian deaths, nearly 200 estimated to be Hamas fighters

Yikes

and their goal is revenge, because you say it's revenge. lol.

do people going for revenge usually tell people "hey leave where you're at, im coming to kill you!"

tbh most, not all, but most of the statements ive read from even the most hardline right wingers in israeli politics have been light on revenge language. they state over and over the goal is to prevent Hamas from mounting another attack like Oct. 7th.

and how else do they do that? tell people to evacuate gaza city 100 times in a row and wait a year? then start bombing? they gave a 24 hour window, then extended it a few more days. they didnt bomb hospitals, the only people who physically cant leave. when they did invade they resupplied the hospital. they turned back on the power and water before even a severely dehydrated person could have died of thirst.

for the record i dont support this invasion or bombing campaign, at all, but i also dont frame it in absurdly biased ways, either.

The bolded are fairly contradictory

Do you know how much fluid a burn or amputated victim needs? How much fluid a septic patient needs?

There are a reason we have specialized burn units in America which are fewer than a third of all hospitals.

Nobody dies of “thirst” necessarily, but you die from renal failure from volume depletion amongst other organ failures

right, as you know im not a doctor, based on pms where i bother you. but the water comment was hyperbolic.

israel didnt shut off the water for 3 weeks like a middle aged siege. maybe that was the plan, and they pulled back from that rather quickly. afaik within 24 hours supplying areas further south right away. then hamas reported gaza city hospitals were hours from being out of fuel, for about 6 days straight. any hour now. almost empty.

i said on october 8th, 9th, 10th, etc. get. the. fuck. out. of. gaza. city.

"but where is safe", "there's no where to go", "no where is safe". so people sat, 20 min walk from areas that are hardly bombed by comparison. insanity.

Oh, allow me to quote then:

“Everyone is talking about unity. Guys, unity is terribly beautiful, but in the field there is revenge, and there is cruelty … We will have our whole lives to grieve, and we will grieve. But now, there is only one goal: to take revenge and to be cruel.”

These were the words of Israeli reserve soldier Guy Hochman — usually an entertainer and online influencer — in an interview on Channel 12 in the first days of Israel’s assault on the Gaza Strip following the Oct. 7 massacres by Hamas militants. In just a few words, Hochman captured the sentiment that appears to have taken hold in Israel, from the far right all the way to many who self-identify as leftists: justification of the catastrophe that Israel is currently wreaking on more than 2 million Palestinians in Gaza.

Some are explaining their justification in terms of “defeating Hamas.” Others, like Hochman, are putting sweeping revenge above all else. It is thus all the more remarkable that, in the face of the prevailing political mood, more and more of those Israelis who survived the massacres, or whose loved ones were killed or kidnapped to Gaza, are coming out and expressing unequivocal opposition to the killing of innocent Palestinians, and saying no to revenge. In a eulogy for her brother Hayim, an anti-occupation activist who was murdered in Kibbutz Holit, Noi Katsman called on her country “not to use our deaths and our pain to cause the death and pain of other people or other families. I demand that we stop the circle of pain, and understand that the only way [forward] is freedom and equal rights. Peace, brotherhood, and security for all human beings.”

Ziv Stahl, executive director of the human rights organization Yesh Din, and a survivor of the hellfire in Kfar Aza, also came out strongly against Israel’s assault on Gaza in an article in Haaretz. “I have no need for revenge, nothing will return those who are gone,” she wrote. “Indiscriminate bombing in Gaza and the killing of civilians uninvolved with these horrible crimes are no solution.”

https://www.972mag.com/israeli-survivors-hamas-massacre-revenge/

so no, not because I say its revenge, because the victims of the terrorist attack say its revenge. They are on the ground, they can see it for what it is.

more links:

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/these-israeli-survivors-dont-want-revenge/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/29/revenge-not-a-policy-say-relatives-of-hamas-victims/

and headlines:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-vows-mighty-vengeance-against-hamas-2023-10-07/
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israels-netanyahu-vows-mighty-vengeance-against-hamas-2023-10-07/

"Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed ‘mighty vengeance’ as he stepped up air strikes on the Strip "

I trust the point has been well made, but if not:

“[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.” - Then-deputy minister of religious services and current deputy minister of defense, Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, 2013.
“What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy?... They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there.” - Current minister of justice, Ayelet Shaked, quoting a former settler activist and speechwriter and advisor for Netanyahu, 2014.
"Our soldiers are the only innocents in Gaza. Under no circumstances should they be killed because of false morality that prefers to protect enemy civilians. One hair on the head of an Israeli soldier is more precious than the entire Gazan populace, which elected the Hamas and supports and encourages anyone who murders Israelis." – Then-deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament (Knesset) from Netanyahu's Likud party, Moshe Feiglin, 2014.
"The Palestinian threat harbors cancer-like attributes that have to be severed. There are all kinds of solutions to cancer. Some say it's necessary to amputate organs but at the moment I am applying chemotherapy."- Then-general and current defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, 2002.
"[The way to deal with Palestinians is to] beat them up, not once but repeatedly, beat them up so it hurts so badly, until it's unbearable." – Benjamin Netanyahu, current prime minister, while in the opposition following his first term as prime minister, caught on video speaking to Israeli settlers, 2001.


This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 16 2023 12:00pm

I’m not saying you haven’t

And I’m not doubting Israel could do worse

However it is a certainty hospital do not have the resources to do the impossible.

Haven’t entered this thread in a few but I found the IDF statistic laughable. Ok so around 11,000 dead but we killed a couple hundred. Not my words

To highlight the absurdity of this statistic, there are 40-50k Hamas fighters in 2 million Palestine (idf statistics). Assuming 50k, you could have shut your eyes and bombed and done better than the current ratio

The goal is to kill more terrorists than you create, surely this is the goal?

This post was edited by Bazi on Nov 16 2023 12:03pm

cool story, but they told them to leave the areas they planned to bomb. they told them where they know tunnels were, and told them they'd bomb the ground above them. they announce individual air strikes.

but hey, these are just facts. nothing compared to a quote from a random reservist, a vague quote from net-and-yahoo, and some idiot calling the bombing "indiscriminate".

this response has been so much more measured than i predicted its absurd. go back to the first 10 pages where i predicted we'd see 100k dead by this point, instead 11k. where i said 1m would die in gaza, and that is all but impossible if the trend continues.

im against israel's response, but lying about fact doesnt help that cause. its gas on a fire. this is an obscure web forum so it doesnt matter, but there's people doing the same misrepresenting you're doing at media companies that send out messages to billions of people. the BBC may be the worst since this conflict started.

incorrect, imo. the plan is to ignore how many terrorists you create. but instead prevent terrorists, no matter how many, from mounting another attack.

whether there are 10k hamas soldiers or 200k hamas soldiers. if the are pushed further south and tunnels are destroyed, with a DMZ eventually created, it doesnt matter how many they are. they wont get through again.

then once safety is assured, the dome's effectiveness increases markedly and the border is manned. then they can get back to the abraham accords and working in the west bank where the gap is workable.

Can you not just say: yes, the Israeli leader wants revenge, as quoted by him. is this too much to ask? Are you saying its incorrectly translated?





This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 16 2023 12:11pm