NYC and many US cities have subsidized housing, they are called projects and section 8. Simply having affordable housing, subsidized food, etc. is not really enough. There's really no simple answer. Demographics is part of it, affordability, social norms, two-parents, half a dozen other major factors. Singaporeans are known for a very strong work ethic and they have some of the longer work hours worked globally for example.

Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

But fundamentally IMO the actual root or at least top 2-3 of the problem is fatherlessness and single parent homes. So many issues and derivate problems arise out of this alone. Singapore has one of the lowest rates of single parenthood with 6% while a place like NYC has 30+% single parent homes and if you drill down into black families it's even higher than that, close to 70%

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 4 2023 08:20pm

So what do you think causes one culture to have fatherlessness and another culture to not?

Cultures aren't birthed from the ether fully formed after all.

Low IQ.
Hope this helps.

There was a time when there wasn't a welfare state, so people stuck it out together out of survival. In 1950s less than 10% of black kids were born in single parent homes. Today it's upwards of 70%.

Is there anything else that happened around the same time that might have been a confounding variable?

I am aware of the failure the projects were and Canada mimic'd in some areas much to the same results but none of the people at least in Canada's instance were provided a job handed out by a federal authority that netted them a proportionate salary to the costs around them and savings required to achieve upward standing, home ownership, etc. It was just here's a shitbox now live in this and stop complaining you have less things.

Two drastically difference scenarios to what its being compared, which is why and as you said its not comparable and really was the point of the back and forth. You cant take the USA or Canada, or Russia or Brazil or China or insert any other massive country in the world and compare it to Singapore or Lux. It's nonsensical. It does not even make sense to compare to a single city because you still have a federal gov't overseeing an entire country and its spending.

The rise in single parenthood without a doubt causes significant issues. Mom cant bring in enough money, kid either drops out of school completely to work some shit job but most labour laws protect against that so they got to the street and another offender is made as a result of poverty. No secrete that poverty disproportionately affecting single mothers. But is poverty often what leads to a single parent family in many of these scenarios. Id say there's a likely case for that and probably why we're in a death cycle.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 5 2023 07:20am

What's the point of fishing when we've had these talks 300 times already on here?

Single parent households have risen across the board, across all races, in a parallel fashion. If you want to pretend the war on drugs is they key and only true factor why blacks have such high fatherlessness figures you have to explain why all of the other races saw parallel increases, without blaming the justice system.

Look at the chart below, notice how the trendlines by race move almost in step? The common denominator is not incarcerations but the rise of welfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure




This doesn't really make sense to me. How does poverty lead to single-parent homes? I mean I can see an argument to be made where it's learned behavior, so it's a cycle being repeated but poverty was a thing for the entirety of human existence. In reality what largely leads to single parent homes today is a well developed welfare system, so people aren't forced to stay together to survive. The average poor person today is better housed, clothed, fed, educated than the person in 1950, yet for some reason they are much more likely to be without a father. So what changed?

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 5 2023 07:38am

Without delving into statistics here, I think even anecdotally you can easily see how poverty generates an entire subset of issues that does not exactly bode well for fostering a successful relationship to begin with. Even outside the community you're mostly referring to if we do delve into statistics citing previous studies, the papers notes that when poorer people get married, they tend marry earlier and are about twice as likely to divorce, regardless of race.

Poor people have issues. An entire set of issues we don't deal with. I am sure you can relate to walking into poor peoples homes and seeing everything broken, relationships, no prospects, fighting, its no wonder you see divorce and what are people working for in NYC for instance when the average 1 bedroom that isnt shit costs 4K per month and your only real prospect is 12 bucks and Mcdicks. Not surprising people are staying in poverty. Not surprising there's a rise in crime, no surprising the cycle continues and economic situations decline further.

To be clear though, I am not saying modern culture and influence helps. It only perpetuates. Glorification of it all via media hasen't done any good for anyone.

This post was edited by SBD on Oct 5 2023 07:50am

I agree that poverty generates a bunch of issues but what generates poverty? I think we both agree that single parent homes is a massive driver but where I tend to disagree is the single-family factor is being driven by the poverty. It's chicken or the egg argument, but what I fall back on is historical comparison.

Poverty did not drive families to break apart in 1950s but somehow that changed and now they do today? So what is the catalyst of the change?

I'll add that I don't think rise of welfare is the sole culprit. In reality there's other social paradigms that played a huge role. Rise of relativism, feminism & other social/philosophic shifts also have a role in all this but tbh I don't have the energy or wish to deconstruct that side of the argument right now.