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Aug 14 2021 03:17pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Aug 14 2021 02:03pm)
This response makes no sense. Perhaps you're drunk.

Insuring your own citizens are all armed isn't "country building hawks". It's insuring your own citizenry is capable of keeping order.

Preventing rebels and terrorists in other nations isn't "country building hawks". It's insuring the enemies of your nation cannot compete.

Abandoning armored vehicles, weapons, ammunition, etc. in enemy territory is not and never was "good". Instead, it can be better described as "country building".



Nice way to miss the entire point. Your on a roll today.
Get some rest
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Aug 14 2021 05:10pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Aug 14 2021 04:03pm)
This response makes no sense. Perhaps you're drunk.

Insuring your own citizens are all armed isn't "country building hawks". It's insuring your own citizenry is capable of keeping order.

Preventing rebels and terrorists in other nations isn't "country building hawks". It's insuring the enemies of your nation cannot compete.

Abandoning armored vehicles, weapons, ammunition, etc. in enemy territory is not and never was "good". Instead, it can be better described as "country building".


Oh hey bobs back.

I give it 12 hours before he cries to the mods again
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Aug 14 2021 06:12pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Aug 14 2021 02:38pm)
>Calling something dumb because its a scathing criticism of the criminals you support

The point could be supported by a number of things including:
The US government funding of the mujahideen.
The Obama/Biden administration arming Islamic militant/terrorist groups (Operation Timber Sycamore, etc)
Permitting the Taliban to acquire vast amounts of US weaponry in recent days - as outlined by InsaneBobb
A reasonable conclusion based on Biden's hardline opposition to Americans buying and owning AR-15s.

I get it, you struggle to cope with the fact that you support gun grabbers who fund and arm terrorists.
Its not too late to realize your mistake and renounce them.

At minimum you could stop pretending its dumb to point it out.


The US government provided aid to the mujahedeen 40 years ago in an effort to repel the Soviets... an entirely different time and situation. It's a silly statement.

I wasn't aware the Taliban was a catch-all term for any Islamic militant group.

A supposed anti-war libertarian criticizing Biden because of what everybody knew was a real possibility when he announced the withdrawal, namely the Taliban taking over cities in Afghanistan, seems weird to me. If you're an honest person, not a hack, you have to acknowledge there are tradeoffs to these decisions. But I guess you'll align your talking points with the neocon establishment if it means you can shit on the best US president of the 21st century. :thumbsup:

This post was edited by IceMage on Aug 14 2021 06:13pm
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Aug 14 2021 06:26pm
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/08/14/statement-by-president-joe-biden-on-afghanistan/

Quote
Over the past several days, I have been in close contact with my national security team to give them direction on how to protect our interests and values as we end our military mission in Afghanistan.

First, based on the recommendations of our diplomatic, military, and intelligence teams, I have authorized the deployment of approximately 5,000 U.S. troops to make sure we can have an orderly and safe drawdown of U.S. personnel and other allied personnel, and an orderly and safe evacuation of Afghans who helped our troops during our mission and those at special risk from the Taliban advance.

Second, I have ordered our Armed Forces and our Intelligence Community to ensure that we will maintain the capability and the vigilance to address future terrorist threats from Afghanistan.

Third, I have directed the Secretary of State to support President Ghani and other Afghan leaders as they seek to prevent further bloodshed and pursue a political settlement. Secretary Blinken will also engage with key regional stakeholders.

Fourth, we have conveyed to the Taliban representatives in Doha, via our Combatant Commander, that any action on their part on the ground in Afghanistan, that puts U.S. personnel or our mission at risk there, will be met with a swift and strong U.S. military response.

Fifth, I have placed Ambassador Tracey Jacobson in charge of a whole-of-government effort to process, transport, and relocate Afghan Special Immigrant Visa applicants and other Afghan allies. Our hearts go out to the brave Afghan men and women who are now at risk. We are working to evacuate thousands of those who helped our cause and their families.

That is what we are going to do. Now let me be clear about how we got here.

America went to Afghanistan 20 years ago to defeat the forces that attacked this country on September 11th. That mission resulted in the death of Osama bin Laden over a decade ago and the degradation of al Qaeda. And yet, 10 years later, when I became President, a small number of U.S. troops still remained on the ground, in harm’s way, with a looming deadline to withdraw them or go back to open combat.

Over our country’s 20 years at war in Afghanistan, America has sent its finest young men and women, invested nearly $1 trillion dollars, trained over 300,000 Afghan soldiers and police, equipped them with state-of-the-art military equipment, and maintained their air force as part of the longest war in U.S. history. One more year, or five more years, of U.S. military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country. And an endless American presence in the middle of another country’s civil conflict was not acceptable to me.

When I came to office, I inherited a deal cut by my predecessor—which he invited the Taliban to discuss at Camp David on the eve of 9/11 of 2019—that left the Taliban in the strongest position militarily since 2001 and imposed a May 1, 2021 deadline on U.S. Forces. Shortly before he left office, he also drew U.S. Forces down to a bare minimum of 2,500. Therefore, when I became President, I faced a choice—follow through on the deal, with a brief extension to get our Forces and our allies’ Forces out safely, or ramp up our presence and send more American troops to fight once again in another country’s civil conflict. I was the fourth President to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistan—two Republicans, two Democrats. I would not, and will not, pass this war onto a fifth.


:bouncy:
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Aug 14 2021 06:29pm
Quote (IceMage @ Aug 14 2021 05:26pm)



Biden already is clearly a better person and leader than the last one
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Aug 14 2021 07:12pm
Quote (IceMage @ 15 Aug 2021 02:26)


Quote
Over our country’s 20 years at war in Afghanistan, America has sent its finest young men and women, invested nearly $1 trillion dollars, trained over 300,000 Afghan soldiers and police, equipped them with state-of-the-art military equipment, and maintained their air force as part of the longest war in U.S. history. One more year, or five more years, of U.S. military presence would not have made a difference if the Afghan military cannot or will not hold its own country. And an endless American presence in the middle of another country’s civil conflict was not acceptable to me.

Amen. :hail:

Quote
Second, I have ordered our Armed Forces and our Intelligence Community to ensure that we will maintain the capability and the vigilance to address future terrorist threats from Afghanistan.

This, however, sounds like wishful thinking to me.




The bottom line on Afghanistan, in my opinion, is that the country will not be able to achieve peace, freedom or democracy unless these things are fought for and established by the Afghan people themselves. Sustainable state structures, institutions or simply 'modernity' cannot be imposed on a country by an outside force, they have to grow organically.

Therefore, it was the correct call to end the mission in Afghanistan. And yes, decision makers were absolutely aware that this would mean that the country eventually falls to the Taliban. What they didn't expect, and what's causing this scramble in recent days, is the Afghan military being completely useless and unwilling to fight or put up any form of resistance, allowing the Taliban to roll over the entire country in just 2-3 weeks. I don't think a lot of people saw that one coming, so I can't really blame the Biden admin or the Pentagon for this development.
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Aug 14 2021 07:18pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 14 2021 06:12pm)
Amen. :hail:


This, however, sounds like wishful thinking to me.




The bottom line on Afghanistan, in my opinion, is that the country will not be able to achieve peace, freedom or democracy unless these things are fought for and established by the Afghan people themselves. Sustainable state structures, institutions or simply 'modernity' cannot be imposed on a country by an outside force, they have to grow organically.

Therefore, it was the correct call to end the mission in Afghanistan. And yes, decision makers were absolutely aware that this would mean that the country eventually falls to the Taliban. What they didn't expect, and what's causing this scramble in recent days, is the Afghan military being completely useless and unwilling to fight or put up any form of resistance, allowing the Taliban to roll over the entire country in just 2-3 weeks. I don't think a lot of people saw that one coming, so I can't really blame the Biden admin or the Pentagon for this development.


afganistan is islam
taliban is also islam
who knows anything about islam?
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Aug 14 2021 08:11pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 14 2021 08:12pm)
Amen. :hail:

This, however, sounds like wishful thinking to me.

The bottom line on Afghanistan, in my opinion, is that the country will not be able to achieve peace, freedom or democracy unless these things are fought for and established by the Afghan people themselves. Sustainable state structures, institutions or simply 'modernity' cannot be imposed on a country by an outside force, they have to grow organically.

Therefore, it was the correct call to end the mission in Afghanistan. And yes, decision makers were absolutely aware that this would mean that the country eventually falls to the Taliban. What they didn't expect, and what's causing this scramble in recent days, is the Afghan military being completely useless and unwilling to fight or put up any form of resistance, allowing the Taliban to roll over the entire country in just 2-3 weeks. I don't think a lot of people saw that one coming, so I can't really blame the Biden admin or the Pentagon for this development.


If we had spent the trillions of dollars we spent occupying the country on building infrastructure, education, and hospitals then they would be able to hold their country.

A country doesn't stop being fertile ground for extremists over night after like 60 years of constant occupation and destruction. Anything short of totally rebuilding the country and putting the wealth in the hands of the people will just result in radicals taking root again.
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Aug 14 2021 08:14pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Aug 14 2021 07:11pm)
If we had spent the trillions of dollars we spent occupying the country on building infrastructure, education, and hospitals then they would be able to hold their country.

A country doesn't stop being fertile ground for extremists over night after like 60 years of constant occupation and destruction. Anything short of totally rebuilding the country and putting the wealth in the hands of the people will just result in radicals taking root again.


and you know nothing about islam
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Aug 14 2021 08:53pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 15 Aug 2021 04:11)
If we had spent the trillions of dollars we spent occupying the country on building infrastructure, education, and hospitals then they would be able to hold their country.

A country doesn't stop being fertile ground for extremists over night after like 60 years of constant occupation and destruction. Anything short of totally rebuilding the country and putting the wealth in the hands of the people will just result in radicals taking root again.


The bolded claim is completely delusional. Afghanistan's problem is not poverty per se, it's the extreme backwardsness in terms of religion, ideology and mores. It's a country stuck in the dark age.
Members of the Afghan military, trained, funded and equipped by the NATO troops, had access to new hospitals and schools. Building even more of them would not have made any difference in these guys' unwillingness to fight the Taliban.

Like I said: sustainable structures need to grow organically, rather than being imposed by an outside force. And like the complete collapse of the Afghan military and government in recent days has shown, there has been very little growing over the past two decades.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 14 2021 08:54pm
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