the argument for poor implementation, and its one im somewhat in agreement with, is NOT that people in need wont get help. its that too many other people that dont need help will exploit the system. or worse that dire struggle is prerequisite for a worthwhile climb up the ladder. ignoring of course that many struggling never climb regardless because its not a ladder, its a pyramid, and only so many can fit on top.

we hear from these people: "idiots go to college, go to trade school and be a plumber like me and you'll make 100k with no debt". like, there's tens of millions of college students, how many plumbers u think we need?

i'd personally rather get taxed higher to have less dumb people, less hungry kids, less struggling mothers. even if it leads to stagnation in their progress and people exploiting the system. just ask any person this and watch their face get confused:

"how many people exploiting food stamps and buying frozen pizzas are acceptable for every 1 child that wont go hungry and get better food"

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 12 2021 12:33pm

The United States is the greatest, best country God has ever given man on the face of the earth.

True. I think another aspect of this is that many people are afraid that others will benefit who, in their eyes, do not deserve (rather than don't need) help. Just think about this strongly racialized discussion about welfare queens from the 80s and early 90s.
Same story with Republican resistance against Obamacare. It's not that the bulk of Republican voters are fundamentally against better healthcare coverage, but they disliked a system which saw their own premiums go up sharply while most of the benefits went to "the other side".


This argument is the mirror image of the usual argument that "we need to combat joblessness and wage stagnation by more education". When 60% of an age group go to college, it's no surprise and actually inevitable that an associate or undergrad degree won't guarantee a great job or income anymore.



Sure, but then again: even if some exploitation and inefficiency has to be accepted with social programs, we can still expect the government to try to keep the leakage to a minimum - and that's exactly the issue where a lot of people don't trust Democrats.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 12 2021 12:44pm

The biggest issue we have now is America is seeing corporations and businesses DESPERATE for labor, across the board, and offering bonuses, increased pay up to and exceeding 15$/hour even in fast food, etc. AND we have people saying "we cant raise taxes on corporations to pay for basic functions of a first world country, we need them for jobs". Now is the time. 15$/hour fast food pay caused menu items to raise by like 5 cents. that's the boogeyman we've been made to fear all along? pshhhh.

also its funny that republicans were convinced of the "other side" getting the benefits of obamacare when poor rural GOP voters signed up by the millions. GOP convincing poor whites that blacks are the enemy is a comically sad grift.

I mean... the guiding thread of Democratic messaging for the past 6++ years has been "whites enjoy tons of unearned privilege and we are coming to take it away from them" as well as "we can't wait until the entire country is majority-minority". Is it any surprising against this backdrop that their social democratic proposals on economic policy and entitlements don't gain traction with white voters? Is it surprising that the GOP's strategy falls on fertile ground?


At the end of the day, the establishment of both major parties is beholden to corporate interest and intentionally stoking racial division to keep the poor and working-class in America from joining forces and spurring an actual change to the status quo on economic policy, taxes, the social safety net and so on.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 12 2021 01:06pm

You still don't understand they create division on purpose? Stupid fucks will listen to that and start hating because the magic box in their living room told them so.

People with higher than 20 IQ will understand that the real problem we face is poor vs rich worldwide.

Where race often play a factor is when you go to a different country like China for example. You can't expect it to be America 2.0. Its not racist to say, Chinese live in different ways.

I always laugh that the party of infrastructure upgrades, worker protection, child/woman protection, prison/CJ reform, and many other realistic staple goals of policy are boiled down to "they hate white people". all because of things like 30 minute speeches someone will make a PC one liner that gets reported on over and over. or they're fringe crazies in the party (AOC etc) that get fuckall done and get turned on by their own supporters, but the right (not the left) makes them the face of the party because they write dumb fanfic-esque things like the Green New Deal.

while the left is indeed corrupt with corporate interests, their increased spending wants make them actually partly in favor of drastically increasing taxes. the right wing has all of the corruption while also not having much to do with that cash if they get it.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 12 2021 01:16pm

Absolutely not. Canada stands on the shoulders of giants to reach all its greats. Then you shit on US

Well, these toxic parts of the Democratic platform do indeed have a tangible and very real impact on average Americans. I find it intellectually dishonest to just brush aside all reservations about strangling regulations, climate policies fueling the cost of living, mass immigration putting pressure on wages and housing markets, government overspending triggering inflation and so on and forth. It's not convincing at all to assume that "all this other stuff" that full Democratic control would entail will be more than offset by the good parts of their economic agenda.