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Dec 16 2025 03:15pm
id be ok with nationalizing it, not because i expect it to fix it, but because i know that's where we're headed eventually. might as well start smoothing out the lumps now. i think it would also get the ball rolling on a lot of things because they'd prove to be hurdles. immigration reform might come a lot quicker if we nationalize, then again its not in the UK, France or Germany.


Average total benefits (state+local, both means/non-means tested, ie SNAP+education+medical+housing+etc) to those in poverty in the US: ~$65,000
Average yearly income in Somalia: ~$600

Right now if an illegal alien has felony counts for molesting children, a swarm of democratic activists will surround and attack ICE agents at his house to try to stop them from deporting him.
That's how far removed we are from having a functional social safety net in America
There are necessary harsh preconditions like restricting citizenship and triaging care and we wouldn't even be able to handle the most basic cases that should be so uncontroversial that in a sane debate we'd call it a pointless contrived circumstance because nobody would want their money paying for mutilating children or coddling chomos and yet we can't even get that far. Its like we're in an inflatable liferaft 30 days at sea with no fresh water and half the survivors are demanding we keep throwing the last of our food to the sharks following in our wake to keep them fed.
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Dec 16 2025 03:31pm
Average total benefits (state+local, both means/non-means tested, ie SNAP+education+medical+housing+etc) to those in poverty in the US: ~$65,000
Average yearly income in Somalia: ~$600

Right now if an illegal alien has felony counts for molesting children, a swarm of democratic activists will surround and attack ICE agents at his house to try to stop them from deporting him.
That's how far removed we are from having a functional social safety net in America
There are necessary harsh preconditions like restricting citizenship and triaging care and we wouldn't even be able to handle the most basic cases that should be so uncontroversial that in a sane debate we'd call it a pointless contrived circumstance because nobody would want their money paying for mutilating children or coddling chomos and yet we can't even get that far. Its like we're in an inflatable liferaft 30 days at sea with no fresh water and half the survivors are demanding we keep throwing the last of our food to the sharks following in our wake to keep them fed.


toxic empathy is a hell of a drug. millennials really are giving boomers a run for their money as the worst generation. best hope now is that we can keep net migration low even after trump and start to slowly deport away the people who are an issue.
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Dec 16 2025 04:23pm
im not justifying his murder, but you replied to "he was basically a mass murderer" with "any definitive proof". yes, there is, he's the head of an organization that is culpable for the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands of people, and in an industry known for that his company stood out as especially bad. and not just his company, but his tenure. he ushered in an era of increased denial of claims with pure profit motivation.

as to how to fix the issue, well.... murder wont do it, we agree, but im not seeing many other options either. the only real option is pure socialist healthcare, because the legislature will never draft an anti insurance checks and balances bill.


I'm not sure if I can take your word for the bolded claim. For instance, the vast majority of critical surgeries take place in very sick individuals, many of which are bound to die within the next couple of years anyway, and the surgery and treatment is only about how long they can stave off their inevitable demise. Think stuff like a Whipple procedure for patients with pancreatic cancer. So even if United Healthcare denied hundreds of thousands of claims, this is not the same as them having denied hundreds of thousands of one-off treatments after which the patient in question could have lived a long and healthy life.

And then there's the stats Goom mentioned about them not having notably higher profit margins than other insurers, which casts further shade on the claim that they were ruthlessly sacrificing their vulnerable clients for profit. But enough with the hair-splitting, I see your broader point.



the system can of course be improved a lot by fiddling with the knobs, but who can we trust to turn them correctly? maybe a cap on some care procedures is a good idea, but will they act with restraint or push good doctors out because they cap way too much?

honestly its all pretty moot with such an unhealthy population, america cant really socialize healthcare while its addicted to the foods that make its costs untenable.


Maybe the US could look at the way other first world countries are organizing their healthcare industry. The NHS in the UK, as the textbook example for a single payer healthcare system, has a ton of issues, but you could look to Germany or the Netherlands. Both countries have private insurers, but with very tight regulations on their operations to ensure that everyone will be covered and costs can be kept somewhat in check. Yes, we have problems with runaway healthcare costs as well, but not to the same extent. And our problems mostly come down to external factors like a stagnant economy, an aging population and a massive influx of refugees who receive more benefits than they pay in premiums.

And yes, doctors in Western Europe are well paid, but the bulk of them not excessively. The average annual income is in the ballpark of €140-200k, which seems fair for a highly qualified and prestigious job with excessively long and selective training.



Its like we're in an inflatable liferaft 30 days at sea with no fresh water and half the survivors are demanding we keep throwing the last of our food to the sharks following in our wake to keep them fed.

:rofl: :hail:
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Dec 16 2025 08:07pm
The fuck? The dude allowed thousands of fathers to die when he could have allowed needed health care to let them fight to keep living. At least you're showing exactly where you're at which is good.

"Duueh my gawd guys his family doesnt have a father!" Post this on reddit I beg you.


Sincerely: What is it like being the weak part of the "hard times strong men good times weak men" axiom?
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Dec 17 2025 07:20am
I'm not sure if I can take your word for the bolded claim. For instance, the vast majority of critical surgeries take place in very sick individuals, many of which are bound to die within the next couple of years anyway, and the surgery and treatment is only about how long they can stave off their inevitable demise. Think stuff like a Whipple procedure for patients with pancreatic cancer. So even if United Healthcare denied hundreds of thousands of claims, this is not the same as them having denied hundreds of thousands of one-off treatments after which the patient in question could have lived a long and healthy life.

And then there's the stats Goom mentioned about them not having notably higher profit margins than other insurers, which casts further shade on the claim that they were ruthlessly sacrificing their vulnerable clients for profit. But enough with the hair-splitting, I see your broader point.





Maybe the US could look at the way other first world countries are organizing their healthcare industry. The NHS in the UK, as the textbook example for a single payer healthcare system, has a ton of issues, but you could look to Germany or the Netherlands. Both countries have private insurers, but with very tight regulations on their operations to ensure that everyone will be covered and costs can be kept somewhat in check. Yes, we have problems with runaway healthcare costs as well, but not to the same extent. And our problems mostly come down to external factors like a stagnant economy, an aging population and a massive influx of refugees who receive more benefits than they pay in premiums.

And yes, doctors in Western Europe are well paid, but the bulk of them not excessively. The average annual income is in the ballpark of €140-200k, which seems fair for a highly qualified and prestigious job with excessively long and selective training.




:rofl: :hail:


https://fellowhealthpartners.com/the-hidden-crisis-of-insurance-denial-rates-how-americans-are-paying-the-price/

United Healthcare led all of the insurers in this study with a 33% denial of claims rate. you dont have to just trust me, its a studied topic with actual statistics. there are some reasons for it which are legitimate, and some of it is also profit driven.

what i always find funny is we all know that large corporations are for profit, and in america for profit generally means profit maximalization. the only reason not to rip off your customer is to avoid losing future business, but you as a sound businessman toe that line as close as you can. keep your customer just happy enough to extract maximum value for shareholders. then i point this out and people say SAUCE SAUCE SAUCE. come on guys, health insurance is a ruthless landscape, we all know it. good, just, kind, moral people dont work in that business at the CEO level. doesnt mean they should die, but they're bad people.
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Dec 17 2025 07:38am
And now, there is no more father tucking his kids in bed while his company keeps denying just as many claims as before, so how exactly can his murder be defended in either moral or political terms? What exactly has been accomplished by his murder? No matter how much greedy healthcare execs suck, wanton assassinations are not the way to deal with this issue.

Basically, the argument to make is that decisions by healthcare insurers are decisions about life and death and should therefore not be subject to unfettered profit maximization. Or that free market logic doesn't apply in the case of healthcare since one's health is vital and non-negotiable, so "don't buy if you don't like or can't afford the price" is simply not an option.


That's just the free market freely redistributing bullets into skulls that had it coming
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Dec 17 2025 07:52am
I mean he's showing what the left really is. He comes to a thread about Militancy, Vandalism and Terrorism to tell us how much the innocent victims deserved to die because of his political motive
The great islamic avenger & son managed to kill 16 jews today, I'm sure they believed "the world was done a favor", and I'm getting the impression so does he


Dont forget the Islamic hero that put his life on the line to save the jews.
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Dec 17 2025 08:37am
https://fellowhealthpartners.com/the-hidden-crisis-of-insurance-denial-rates-how-americans-are-paying-the-price/

United Healthcare led all of the insurers in this study with a 33% denial of claims rate. you dont have to just trust me, its a studied topic with actual statistics. there are some reasons for it which are legitimate, and some of it is also profit driven.

what i always find funny is we all know that large corporations are for profit, and in america for profit generally means profit maximalization. the only reason not to rip off your customer is to avoid losing future business, but you as a sound businessman toe that line as close as you can. keep your customer just happy enough to extract maximum value for shareholders. then i point this out and people say SAUCE SAUCE SAUCE. come on guys, health insurance is a ruthless landscape, we all know it. good, just, kind, moral people dont work in that business at the CEO level. doesnt mean they should die, but they're bad people.


How many statistical claims fall apart for not controlling hidden variables? Insurers don't serve a uniform demographic, and rates of claim denial can be a product of who is holding the claims. UHC members are vastly disproportionate to other insurers, with a super high overrepresentation of the elderly and poor. About half of all their policies are for older adults, about 1/4 are in poverty. Compared to US demographics of 18% and 10%. For BCBS its closer to those same ratios.

We need the inputs and the outputs of their insurance, the total premiums and subsidies paid, the overhead consumed and benefits paid out. If UHC is only averaging the same profit margins as other insurers, and indeed had 0% profit last quarter, they aren't running some ultra greedy profiteering scam. If they denied more claims, its more likely that's a result of having more spurious or fraudulent or meritless claims filed that needed denying than other insurers. If they halved the rate of denying claims, napkin math would expect their payouts to be ~25% higher, resulting in an 18% operating loss and they'd need to hike premiums. Or go bust.
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Dec 17 2025 08:57am
How many statistical claims fall apart for not controlling hidden variables? Insurers don't serve a uniform demographic, and rates of claim denial can be a product of who is holding the claims. UHC members are vastly disproportionate to other insurers, with a super high overrepresentation of the elderly and poor. About half of all their policies are for older adults, about 1/4 are in poverty. Compared to US demographics of 18% and 10%. For BCBS its closer to those same ratios.

We need the inputs and the outputs of their insurance, the total premiums and subsidies paid, the overhead consumed and benefits paid out. If UHC is only averaging the same profit margins as other insurers, and indeed had 0% profit last quarter, they aren't running some ultra greedy profiteering scam. If they denied more claims, its more likely that's a result of having more spurious or fraudulent or meritless claims filed that needed denying than other insurers. If they halved the rate of denying claims, napkin math would expect their payouts to be ~25% higher, resulting in an 18% operating loss and they'd need to hike premiums. Or go bust.


like i said there is a lot of good reasons they have high claim denials. and then on the other hand they recently just had a class action lawsuit filed against them for using an AI claims denial system where one pool showed a 90% overturn of the denials upon appeal where a human actually looked into it. many companies and certainly UHC use a delayed payment schedule to providers in the hopes that customers, even 1% or so, get scared by letters from providers and pay any amount before insurance does. i worked in the industry for a while and have family who still does, its the standard playbook. hold cash back even when payment is approved in the hopes that some poor schmuck pays off claims. its the business they're in.

we can toss back and forth numbers all we want, a simple truth is still staring us in the face. they want the maximum profit they can get, period. they might short term take lower profit as a PR strategy, but they wont do it as a business model. if they reported 0% profit we can expect more AI driven models that fuck people or denied claims to rectify that.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 17 2025 08:58am
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Dec 17 2025 11:24am
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