As a matter of fact, you CAN put the mileage on your vehicle as 1/3rd of what it is on a loan form at a bank. No worries. A rather surprising number of people have no idea what the mileage on their vehicle is and just guess. Had one guy list his 2 year old truck as 95,000 miles because "I drive a ton!". When they valuated the truck, they checked the mileage. 15K. Most customers guess fewer miles, or larger square footage. Their guesses are irrelevant. The bank ALWAYS valuates on their own.

Valuation IS subjective, sure. But the valuation from a BANK typically includes multiple assessments, by full time, professional assessors, like, this is literally what they do. And the reason that "fraud" is not a thing when dealing with bank loans is because they trust nothing, verify everything. Every time.

Now, if you could prove that a bank employee provided Trump a loan at a rate that would not be provided by any other person at that bank, or any other bank, based on their own valuation of his property values that he was putting up as collateral, then we could look at the "inside job" form of fraud. But that's not what happened at all, is it? And once again, information I see is that his penthouse apartment is 11K square feet and the roof, which is part of it and has full access is 15K square feet. That would be 26K square feet. 30K isn't far off.

Once again, everything you're saying is either made up, a lie, or assumes intent that no reasonable jury would assume. Which is precisely why they refused to allow him a jury trial. And that's where it gets fun.





Now, here's where it gets fun. If the accusation is criminal fraud, then Trump cannot be denied a jury. But he was denied a jury. Therefore, it's NOT criminal fraud, no matter WHAT you claim. So, then we get to a civil case. Civil cases are kind of funny. They require one person or company to sue another person or commpany over whatever perceived injustice they have. Your claim that the DA can press these charges, that's literally their job, is NOT correct. Trump's accuser in this case is a DA, not a bank or any of their representatives. Trump had no business dealings with the DA that the DA could sue him over. Not a criminal trial and no jury? Then the complainant MUST be the person or company that trump misrepresented himself to. If it IS criminal, then Trump needs a jury.

Further, Civil penalties have maximums, and those maximums must be based on damages in fact. Not perceived damages, damages in fact. And no bank provided damages in fact. $370 million is what they're demanding, right? And ALL of that to be seized by the State and City of NY, who are not even a complainant. The entire process around the case AND how it has been handled, or the fact that it was handled at all, is BEGGING for a swift kick in the dick in appeals.

Go back and read what we've talked about so far and you would see why this isn't fraud, and also isn't analagous to what Trump did.

Again, Trump knowingly misrepresented things. We know he did it knowingly because he was the one who signed the agreements and the appraisals. "I forgot" doesn't cut it when you're a real estate mogul and your signatures are on every document.



I have never claimed it was criminal fraud. This is specifically a civil fraud case. Go back and check my posts and I've never called it a crime. I've called it unlawful.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 3 2024 08:03pm

Sounds too venomous for me. Genius.

What did Trump knowingly misrepresent, how exactly did he do so, and how is it relevant? Like, I'm never shocked when Trump misrepresents something. He's a braggart. In 2011, Forbes estimated his net worth at $2.4 Billion, and provide evidence and valuation to that effect. That same year (iirc) Trump did a comedy central roast, where he insisted he was worth like $7 Billion or something. He ALWAYS exaggerates. Tell me how he misrepresented himself to the bank that we didn't just cover.

To help you out a bit: HE did not represent to the bank that MAL could be lotted out. He provided an assessment, by like, an assessor, that represented that. Any argument that "Trump should have known!" is simply bullshit. Trump bought the property in 1985. 2011, in case you can't count, is 26 years later. In that period of time, Trump bought a LOT of properties, was in the middle of his top rated tv show, and the fact is that it's more than likely he forgot. Like, that shit would stick in YOUR mind. But you're a small little man who can't even pay off his student loans, let alone buy dozens (hundreds?) of high value properties. When you include the square footage available for use on the roof of his Trump Tower apartment, the total square footage would be right around 26K square feet. 30K is a good guess.

Now, DAs do not bring charges for civil cases. The injured party brings the civil case. Neither the State nor City of NY is the injured party. They're alleging that the banks are injured parties, but the banks rejected that assertion completely. That right there is the end of the case. IF it is a civil case. Based on that alone, this should absolutely get kicked by the 2nd circuit. And if not them, definitely SCOTUS. Now, if the 2nd Circuit kicks it back, that doesn't mean it can't be retried. Thing is, they'll have to retry it as a CRIMINAL trial for the DA to properly bring charges. Good luck convincing even a NY jury that a retarded assessor failing to notice zoning restrictions is fraud, OR Trump being off by a few thousand square feet is fraud, most especially with the testimony from the Banks that they performed their own valuations of his property. It's a losing case in the only way it can legally be brought.

If it makes you feel any better, the appeals court (or SCOTUS) will likely kick back the defamation case as well. A jury found that E Gene Carrol was NOT raped by donald trump. That went to a jury. Trump called her a liar who falsely accused him of rape. $84 Million for telling the literal truth? Why? She falsely accused him of rape. A jury determined that she was a liar. Why on EARTH would it be defamation for him to point out that she is a liar who falsely accuses men of sexual crimes?

I think your little nerdgasm over these bullshit cases is gonna hit a huge wall. BUT, I will say that it's good you're so fired up. Keep that enthusiasm. You'll need it to vote for that useless imbecile Biden again later this year.

Man I love how you can say "I'm never surprised because he does this all the time" and "where did he do this?" in the same line. Absolutely zero sensitivity to cognitive dissonance.

The problem here is that you know nothing about banking, first and foremost, and second that you know nothing about the case. Believe it or not, I've been following the case. Both cases. And I've seen all the legal analysis. Not from Maddow or whatever it is you watch. From lawyers. Now, there are a couple of lawyers who genuinely believe that Trump could actually get stuck with a shit enough jury to lose a criminal case. But there was a minor detail I forgot, which should interest you greatly:

The statute of limitations on Fraud is 6 years in NY for a criminal charge. So, to correct my prior post, they COULD retry him when it gets kicked back if only the statute of limitations on the attempted charge hadn't already expired.

And THAT is why the DA is attempting to press civil charges, when that is literally NOT lawful. The DA is not a valid complainant.

My dude this is not a criminal trial. Whatever analysis you're watching you need to watch something else.

Indeed, it's not a criminal case, it's a civil case. Civil cases occur when a business or individual feels they have been unlawfully injured or damaged by another individual. The complainant needs to be the injured party or their assigned representatives, and they must be willing to testify to their injury, as well as damages IN FACT. DA's bring criminal charges. To restate, I can sue you, personally, for civil damages. However, if you commit a crime against me, I can not press criminal charges against you, ONLY civil. The DA has to press criminal charges. Do you understand? So this bullshit:



Is yet more evidence that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, you just keep making shit up.

Good thing Weiselberg already plead guilty to CRIMINAL fraud. Which is what gave the DA the impetus to bring this case which spawned the civil fraud cause against the company he was doing the fraud on the part of.

Wow amazing what you can debunk when you know the basics of the case.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 3 2024 09:26pm

What does Weiselberg's tax fraud have to do with this case?

I'm sure you think you're making a brilliant case, but for a civil suit to be valid, the injured party must sue the party that injured them. There is no injured party in this case, and no damages. Trump did not have any business dealings with the complainant (the DA) at all, and the parties the DA claimed suffered injury (the banks) all flat denied any injury, or damages.

It's not a legal case, and it's very very close to prosecutorial malfeasance. Had the DA attempted to press the criminal charges for it, prior to the Statute of Limitations expiring, that would have been fine. The funny thing about that? Maximum penalty for bank fraud, what you're accusing this of being? $1,000,000 and up to 30 years in jail. Thing is, that sounds like a lot less than $370 million and the revoking of all business licenses in the State of New York. Weird, huh?