Quote (JessiWan @ 30 Sep 2021 18:02)

Just because you personally do not mind taking in refugees, it does not mean you can let them in without consulting the rest of your countrymen. Maybe some of them don't want refugees, for any number of reason. Your country is not yours alone. You alone should not dictate its immigration policy.

Quote (fender @ Sep 30 2021 06:01pm)

the typical reply of someone who is completely overwhelmed by any degree of nuance and facts that go against their simplistic, black and white worldview, lol. thanks for proving my point, little man.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 30 2021 06:36pm)

A lot of people don't mind in taking actual refugees for a couple of years until they return to their countries of origin, with every asylum seeker who commits felonies or whose application for asylum was rejected being deported immediately.

What many people reject, however, is when asylum laws open the door for uncontrolled poverty/economic migration of people from all sorts of backwards, culturally incompatible shitholes, with even convicted criminals or rejected asylum seekers staying indefinitely.

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 30 Sep 2021 18:45)

you have never overwhelmed anything except the scales with your weight

reality does care about your feelings

you know that i agree on the culprits, every syrian should have been sent directly to washington and the warmongering/regime changing trash there

but its not happening, because fender or anybody says so

even countries like denmark and sweden who took in people before are done with this, nobody except germany wants this shit anymore, the uk left the EU because of this

we have absorbed so many people that it endagers public safety, cohesion in society and our finances

the number 1 destination of most people is germany, so what are you going to do in the example i mentioned? detain migrants to make sure they stay?

and how is your approach even a solution? africa and the middle east grow by over 1 million per week

how many more do you plan to accept? and what business do afghans or sub saharan people actually have here, when its half a world away?

nobody except germany and NGO's wants this fender, you are driving in the wrong direction on the highway

Quote (fender @ Sep 30 2021 06:56pm)

lol, your personal attacks are almost as off as your political takes, and probably for similar reasons... projection.
all you have to offer are blatantly racist and factually incorrect generalisations, absurd exaggerations, and braindead fearmongering - how is THAT a solution?

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 30 Sep 2021 19:17)

so you answer a question with a question and added some mimimi racism on top

i just stated the facts, nobody wants this anymore except germany and the math speaks for itself

rejecting every single illegal until they stop coming is the solution, nobody will attempt the journey if they have no chance

australia has proven that this approach works

nobody will oppose taking in a handful of handpicked people

so my questions are still in the room: how does taking in people from places with exploding birthrates provide a solution?

how many more are we supposed to take? until we go bankrupt?

how will you enforce migrants going to countries they dont to be in even IF you find other fools to follow us?

why is it a given that these migrants come to europe and travel through a dozen safe countries?

how are you justifying spending dozens of billions in germany alone for these people with terrible integration results and also not sending them back?

tell me fender

Quote (fender @ Sep 30 2021 07:27pm)

you haven't stated a single fact, just racist fearmongering. are you delusional or something?!

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Sep 30 2021 07:17pm)

how does taking in people from places with exploding birthrates provide a solution?

how many more are we supposed to take? until we go bankrupt?

how will you enforce migrants going to countries they dont to be in even IF you find other fools to follow us?

why is it a given that these migrants come to europe and travel through a dozen safe countries?

how are you justifying spending dozens of billions in germany alone for these people with terrible integration results and also not sending them back?

tell me fender

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ 30 Sep 2021 19:40)

so you cant answer my questions and demanding a simple answer about how many people one of most densely populated places on the planet is supposed to take in is racist

good to know sweetheart

so its like i said before, you are just another refugees welcome activist pretending to be reasonable, there is no other explanation

and you clearly dont care about the consequences, because you are not a net tax payer

just take some money from rich people for the next million migrants

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 28 2021 09:20pm)

Do you know the numbers for the "imbalanced pay to the EU?" because I thought they got more money back than they put in.

Also I thought the UK has always been exempt from immigration quotas ever since their joining of the EU, because that was basically one of their conditions.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 29 2021 11:51pm)

Before Brexit, they used to be the second largest net contributor to the EU budget behind Germany for many years. Moreover, the British stance on fiscal policy was wildly at odds with the push of the 'southern bloc' around France and Italy to move the EU toward a transfer and debt union.

Another key factor of Brexit was sovereignty. The EU courts issued several rulings which didn't go over well at all in Britain. Generally speaking, the Eurocrats in Brussels are constantly trying to eat away at national sovereignty and transfer more and more power toward the EU. Many europhile politicians and countries are explicitly endorsing the vision of a "United States of Europe" as the endgame of the EU while that's a horror vision for the independent-minded and headstrong Brits. European courts having (or claiming to have) precedence over British courts was a huge talking point for the Leave campaign.



Afaik that's not the case.

The two waves of the EU eastern expansion (in 2004 and 2007) contained provisions which allowed the old member states to delay and limit the freedom of movement for the Polish, Romanian etc. workers for up to 7 years since many of them feared being overrun by cheap Eastern European workers. The Labour-led, very globalist and neoliberal UK government under Tony Blair opted not to use these clauses and fully open its economy for these people right away, which led to a huge influx of Poles in particular. This surge of - mostly cheap, non-college - workers from Eastern Europe triggered or exacerbated anti-immigration and anti-EU sentiments in the UK, which led to the rise of UKIP and, ultimately, to Brexit.

Another factor is the historical context: just 9 months prior to the Brexit referendum, Merkel had unilaterally triggered a tsunami of uncontrolled immigration of Arabs, and later Africans, into Europe by publicly declaring that Germany would take in asylum seekers "with no upper limit". In the following months, between Merkel's opening of the borders and the Brexit referendum, she - as well as pro-migration forces within the EU institutions - tried to blackmail the other EU members, and the migration-sceptic Eastern Europeans in particular, into taking in quotas of these asylum seekers that she/they had let in. This was of course fuel to the fear inside the UK that the EU would eventually seek to undermine British sovereignty and even tell them which people to accept as their new neighbors and fellow countrymen. It was the perfect storm that reinforced all pre-existing anti-migration, anti-German and anti-EU resentment and, essentially, was the spark that got Brexit over the finish line. Without Merkel's antics, the referendum probably flips and ends up 52/48 or so in favor of Remain.



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Regarding the impact of Brexit, the picture is really murky. Since the impact of Brexit and the covid crisis (as well as the lingering supply chain and energy price issues triggered by the covid lockdowns) coincide, the British government and the Leavers can blame all the hiccups on that while the opposition and the Remainers can blame everything on Brexit. Imho, it will take time for the dust to settle. We need to wait for 1-2 more years before we can really disentangle these effects and tell which developments are permanent/temporary or caused by Brexit/global factors.

Quote (dro94 @ 1 Oct 2021 23:22)

Incorrect on both points. UK was the 2nd biggest net contributor to the EU and, as a member, had to agree to the four freedoms. You can't be in the EU if you don't agree to them



You can quickly ascertain the Brexit impact on the UK by comparing it to EU countries. There's a gas crisis in the UK and the EU, so it isn't due to Brexit, however UK exports to the EU have dropped 17% since Brexit whereas every EU country has increased their exports to other EU countries in the same timeframe. That is due to Brexit red tape which is making us less competitive

Only a fool would blame everything on Brexit or blame everything on the pandemic. Brexit is bad for the UK economy and we'll know the full impact in a few years, but it looks like a 2-3% long term reduction in GDP

Quote (fender @ Oct 1 2021 11:02pm)

maybe he was talking about non-EU migration, remembering that the UK was in fact not a member of the schengen agreement and as such in full control of their borders? also, while they were indeed a net contributor, they still contributed considerably less than they should have, based on the size of their economy - thanks to a massive rebate. but hey, details, right?

also, which "gas crisis" are you talking about? the shortage of natural gas, or the fuel distribution crisis, which is most definitely unique to the UK and brexit related?