If you evict your 3 day old infant to the outdoors and they die of exposure, you're still a murderer.

there are animal "rights activists" but thats a whole other topic

at conception is when the "magic/life " starts. a "pro lifer stance"
as an experiment a "simple" cell is punctured and the insides flow out side and the cell dies. you can put everything back and stitch it up. but it will remain dead. i havent come across anything that explains life, it is still a mystery.

a pro abortion stance seem to have no limits. There is some stuff going around that they are pushing for "abortion" even after birth.

my personal stance on the argument is to make it a personal question. "is sex a responsibility or is it a toy?"

if you like some things that make you think check out my threads in the science platform

If it's "a convenient place" then I don't think that's really a "philosophical" position.

Nobody is doing that. They are stopping babies from being born at all.

No need to bring up categorically different circumstances.



The egg is her, and the sperm is hers once it is there. The fertilizing egg is hers because it is in her body and she has bodily autonomy. There is no reason to think a fetus is a person within the first twenty weeks without wizard beliefs like god mumbo jumbo.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 6 2022 08:27pm

They are evicting the fetus. Totally comparable to putting a child out in the cold.

No, the egg is her offal. Sperm is his offal. Together, they become a new, unique organism.

This post was edited by Santara on May 6 2022 08:32pm

No it isn't because a child is a person, it has gone through birth, and is an independent being apart from its mother, and a fetus isn't a person until it is born. This has been a distinction forever. There is no reason to start making rules legislating over the human body, especially when its predominately men legislating over the female body.

Forcing women to give birth when birth costs so much as an expensive commodity and healthcare isn't a right is kind of absurd and enhances the feminization of poverty, which is a patriarchal goal. Its bad.

Not like you to force the consumption of commodities on people. Unless you want to socialize healthcare you're talking out of both sides of your mouth IMO.

And yes, everything that costs money is a commodity, so birth services are. Since birth has been the number one killer of women in history you aren't being as pro-life as you think either. Access to abortion as a healthcare procedure has completely wiped out the lethality of abortions.

It is just anti-women on so many levels. Infantizes them as well because you're taking away their moral agency in the matter.



Philosophically it is subjective and depending on the philosopher. You don't have a monopoly on thought. Also philosophy means love of wisdom, it doesn't mean being right. You can practice it and be completely wrong. Are you really right about questions that Socrates and company struggle with? That is something.

So since you're answering these questions, long-time questions since the Greeks, is it nature or nurture? What is the purpose of life? Roe v Wade stated how arrogant that stance was for a philosopher and a judge to have. This action was accomplished through deceit as well, judges who lied in testimony. Dishonest judges is very symbolic of the prolife movement.

Still think its based in faith alone.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 6 2022 08:50pm

As realistic as Trickle-down economics, hyper small government for national security, and charity to solve healthcare & misery.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on May 6 2022 08:38pm

Legally, generally yes. Philosophically, no.



Nothing you wrote addressed the point I made. I feel dumber for having had to read your post.

The earliest a baby has been born and survived is 21 weeks and 5 days. Two premature babies hold the record for this.

Surprisingly, the first record holder was born in 1987, a time when the medical care of premature babies (neonatology) was a very new field.

However, this is well before the accepted age of viability. Usually, the earliest a baby can survive is about 22 weeks gestation. The age of viability is 24 weeks.


Quoted from first link in search.
To me, there's the "life-line" and abortions shouldnt be performed even close to it. Make abortions legal, make a sensible cutoff in regards to gestation duration. Make them expensive if elective. Offer them free if tragic.

If I had to sign a paper shaming me for my child not being breast fed. Then elective abortions should recieve similar treatment.

This post was edited by WastedPenguinz on May 6 2022 08:50pm

The Libertarian way to rationalize and put in law abortion is flawed, the embryo is not even registered as citizen.
Any woman drinking a beer or smoking -even early in pregnacy- could be sued - not talking about junkies -

Libertarian can pretend to live in a dangerous & inequalitarian world, but will not deliver a single margin of error to women who are already desesperate.
/e and you can feel dumber, but i'm afraid it was not my post.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on May 6 2022 08:58pm