d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Putin Already Lost The War In Ukraine
Prev15455565758120Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 9,693
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 1,590.00
Feb 6 2024 09:35am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 6 Feb 2024 16:10)
Russia had always been willing to sell more gas than the contractually guaranteed minimum in the past, but in 2021, they suddenly refused. Which led to Germany entering the winter in which Russia would invade Ukraine with dangerously low filling levels in its gas storages. You're intentionally naive if you seriously believe that this was a coincidence.

Russia at the time wanted us to sign very long-running contracts with a very high volume of gas that we'd be contractually obliged to take. If we had agreed to such a contract, it would have been even more costly to phase out Russian gas after the invasion. Germany would have had to either pay billions upon billions for gas deliveries which it doesn't take, or pay billions upon billions for breach of contract in international courts of arbitration, or completely stand against its allies by continuing trade with Russia as if nothing happened. We would have been even more trapped, which is exactly what Russia was going for with these contracts.


Gazprom was negotiating 5 to 10 years take or pay contracts to guarantee cashflow to use to finance gas projects. Any project financier will tell you - you cannot launch a project if you don’t have a guaranteed long term contract to ensure you will earn your money back. This works the same way in Renewables or PPPs (eg govt guaranteeing floor offtake price for 10 years to get windpark up and running) or any other big long term deal. Why would Russia waste money and years building up gas export capacity when its customer might flake and decide to decarbonize next year because some leftie greens are in power? This is a waste of money, resources and time and you can’t make investment decisions based on assumptions that Germany will still want to buy spot 5 years down the road when the field comes online.

Once again - you cannot blame Russia for selling their excess gas somewhere else. This is not how the world works. If you want it more and guaranteed - sing a long term contract.

Instead: Germany has spit into the face of its long term partner and signed a 15(!!!) year take-or-pay with ConocoPhillips and Qatar. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/29/qatarenergy-conocophillips-sign-lng-deal-for-germany

Here is a typical long term LNG contract Qatar signs (courtesy of PSO who was obliged to make it public). “Take-or-pay” is clause 8.

https://psopk.com/files/home/use_full_links/qg_executed_redacted_version.pdf

Don’t forget that Qatar directly hosts and sponsors HAMAS so money that will be paid to Qatar for 15 years will go directly against German foreign policy of supporting Israel.

This literally makes no sense.

Re-China I feel we are going to deep and perhaps this is not a correct topic for that. Let’s move this discussion somewhere else - im happy to continue.

This post was edited by Malopox on Feb 6 2024 10:04am
Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
Feb 6 2024 11:01am
Quote (Malopox @ Feb 6 2024 03:35pm)
Gazprom was negotiating 5 to 10 years take or pay contracts to guarantee cashflow to use to finance gas projects. Any project financier will tell you - you cannot launch a project if you don’t have a guaranteed long term contract to ensure you will earn your money back. This works the same way in Renewables or PPPs (eg govt guaranteeing floor offtake price for 10 years to get windpark up and running) or any other big long term deal. Why would Russia waste money and years building up gas export capacity when its customer might flake and decide to decarbonize next year because some leftie greens are in power? This is a waste of money, resources and time and you can’t make investment decisions based on assumptions that Germany will still want to buy spot 5 years down the road when the field comes online.

Once again - you cannot blame Russia for selling their excess gas somewhere else. This is not how the world works. If you want it more and guaranteed - sing a long term contract.

Instead: Germany has spit into the face of its long term partner and signed a 15(!!!) year take-or-pay with ConocoPhillips and Qatar. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/29/qatarenergy-conocophillips-sign-lng-deal-for-germany

Here is a typical long term LNG contract Qatar signs (courtesy of PSO who was obliged to make it public). “Take-or-pay” is clause 8.

https://psopk.com/files/home/use_full_links/qg_executed_redacted_version.pdf

Don’t forget that Qatar directly hosts and sponsors HAMAS so money that will be paid to Qatar for 15 years will go directly against German foreign policy of supporting Israel.

This literally makes no sense.

Re-China I feel we are going to deep and perhaps this is not a correct topic for that. Let’s move this discussion somewhere else - im happy to continue.


Germany spits in the face of its long term partner?

That is how you describe the consequences of Russia launching the largest land war on the European continent for 80 years?

You got it twisted.
Member
Posts: 9,693
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 1,590.00
Feb 6 2024 11:33am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 6 Feb 2024 18:01)
Germany spits in the face of its long term partner?

That is how you describe the consequences of Russia launching the largest land war on the European continent for 80 years?

You got it twisted.


You are way over your head in this one, stay in your lane,
Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
Feb 6 2024 01:04pm
Quote (Malopox @ Feb 6 2024 05:33pm)
You are way over your head in this one, stay in your lane,


Oh tough talk?

Your contradictions are laughable. Pointing out that Qatar have supported to Hamas and that is opposite to Germanys foreign policy of supporting Israel. Meanwhile simping for Russia and suggesting that Germany has made a huge mistake not continuing trade with Russia; The same Russia that is literally invading European countries and one of Germanys allies. :bonk:

Its clear you've been personally hurt and likely negatively financially impacted by cessation of trade with Russia. It oozes in everything you post for others to read.
All the best dealing with that, but I'd suggest keeping your contradictions under wraps if you don't want regularly taken down a peg.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 6 2024 01:05pm
Member
Posts: 9,693
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 1,590.00
Feb 6 2024 01:06pm
This post is a violation of the site rules and appropriate action was taken.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 6 Feb 2024 20:04)
Oh tough talk?

Your contradictions are laughable. Pointing out that Qatar have sent aid to Palestine and that is opposite to Germanys foreign policy of supporting Israel. Meanwhile simping for Russia and suggesting that Germany has made a huge mistake not continuing trade with Russia; The same Russia that is literally invading European countries and one of Germanys allies. :bonk:

Its clear you've been personally hurt and likely negatively financially impacted by cessation of trade with Russia. It oozes in everything you post for others to read.
All the best dealing with that, but I'd suggest keeping your contradictions under wraps if you don't want regularly taken down a peg.


You literally were not able to understand what I wrote and now you’ve exposed it for all to see.

Why would you do this to yourself.

Why do you keep stalking me with your room temperature IQ opinions?
Member
Posts: 20,044
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,397.50
Feb 6 2024 01:08pm
Quote (Malopox @ Feb 6 2024 07:06pm)
You literally were not able to understand what I wrote and now you’ve exposed it for all to see.

Why would you do this to yourself.

Why do you keep stalking me with your room temperature IQ opinions?


"Trading with Qatar is dumb, they support Hamas"
"Germany should've continued trade with Russia while they invaded one of Germanys allies" :bonk:

A Malopox contradiction.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 6 2024 01:08pm
Member
Posts: 9,693
Joined: Mar 2 2006
Gold: 1,590.00
Feb 6 2024 01:15pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 6 Feb 2024 20:08)
"Trading with Qatar is dumb, they support Hamas"
"Germany should've continued trade with Russia while they invaded one of Germanys allies" :bonk:

A Malopox contradiction.



Sad
Member
Posts: 45,717
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Feb 6 2024 02:02pm
Quote (Malopox @ 7 Feb 2024 03:06)
You literally were not able to understand what I wrote and now you’ve exposed it for all to see.

Why would you do this to yourself.

Why do you keep stalking me with your room temperature IQ opinions?


Bro....you can't expect a sheep herder to understand Finance.
Member
Posts: 29,426
Joined: Mar 24 2011
Gold: 1,040.00
Warn: 40%
Feb 6 2024 02:08pm
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ 6 Feb 2024 14:02)
Bro....you can't expect a sheep herder to understand Finance.


:rofl:

Shhhhhh don't mention Scottish people taking Palestinians into their own home he doesn't like that.

Send them to Germany or the UK or France but hey we're the Scottish! Help those poor people!

"Sir we need you to take a Palestinian family of 5 into your own home!"

"Oh no Oh no I didn't mean me personally help I was just virtue signaling please God send them somewhere else!"



This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Feb 6 2024 02:14pm
Member
Posts: 45,717
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Gold: 40,130.00
Feb 6 2024 02:11pm
Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ 7 Feb 2024 04:08)
:rofl:


I mean it's true. That is not an insult or anything. The argument is between a starbucks barista and someone who is working as a banker / trading desk in EU Bank in the commodities department.
Who do you think have the numbers and the statistic and knowledge first hand ?
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev15455565758120Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll