not sure if we've had this conversation before but what exactly is your proof this thing?

also just came across this

interesting read
http://neurophilosophy.%2A%2A%2A/2006/12/04/the-incredible-case-of-phineas-gage/

This post was edited by duffman316 on Apr 27 2014 01:40am

A determinist would say that you were always fated to make that decision, based on your previous life experiences, genetics, etc.

The nice thing about determinism is that it's mathy and sciencey and brings up interesting questions regarding the nature of evil and the problem of evil with the triple O God. The bad thing about determinism is that it invalidates all concepts of personal morality when used as a base premise.

Not sure what I believe one way or another, but making the equivalent of Pascal's Wager means that we should at least act as though the universe operates under a free will model.

i.e. chooses

in a truly libertarian fashion, i'd urge you to conduct a small thought experiment

now let us imagine a case in which an imaginary person is standing in the middle of a field, and let's also presume that this fellow doesn't have the slightest preference in which he finds more to his liking - tits or asses
then, on the right side of the field there's a lass with the most beautiful bottom in the whole wide world bending over to pick up the hickadoodle that she incidentally dropped in a manner that fits the progression of our tale here
however on the leftmost side of the field there happens to be a jogger with a rack truly made in heaven, bouncing and wiggling as she jogs onwards

and thus our imaginary fellow is faced with a choice - whether to bend his head to the right or to the left? can't have both of them at the same time!
now, if he - void of any preferences on the matter but enjoying the sight of both equally will turn his head he has effectively exercised some extent of freedom.
the alternative of course being that he'll just stand there idle and zombie-like, struggling with the deterministic forces that are equally strongly trying to turn his head to the right or to the left.



what?

i'm convinced that physics aren't a valid way to go on about solving problems related to other fields.


hmmh, that is interesting - should i indeed believe you when you say that humans do act rationally? why should i take your word for it? are you claiming that i don't have a choice between acting in a fashion that best serves me or best harms me - or neither?

This post was edited by Gastly on Apr 27 2014 08:01am

as unrealistic as it is to not have a preference, there are other unknown factors at work that will tip the scales and he will look left or right first as a result of that

the way you read a book in your country, the side of the road cars drive on in your country etc, there's a reason for every little thing you do

This post was edited by duffman316 on Apr 27 2014 08:53am

i approve of this message

Is there are already / has there been a free will vs. determinism thread here? I think it'd be fitting.

There have been several over the years but I think we might be ready for another round.

Phineas Gage is a cool case. Yes, brain damage causes radical personality shifts. If you mess around with the conditions of something the end result changes Like adding too much sugar or flour to a cake. Still, a cake is ontologically different than its ingredients and after each desperate ingredient is added and prepared right it takes on a life of its own, and people like us can perform a truly creative mental act and deem that thing a cake, and in our representational reality, it becomes a cake.

But excellent point that we can mess with certain facticities and material conditions to get different results.



Have you found a way to go outside of our representational reality and outside of our shared symbolic world of words or something? Sartre wrote a novel about that

This post was edited by Skinned on Apr 28 2014 05:32am

I believe that if we don't tax the rich that they will hoard all the assets they can, causing economic stagnation. If we do tax the rich, and give to the poor, the poor will recirculate that money, although by buying consumable products and trashing the environment.