It's not accounting fraud. Accounting is not a loan application. Accounting Fraud has a very specific legal definition, and this is not that at all.

Keep making shit up, you're sounding dumber by the minute. Pretty sure I can hear that wind tunnel between your ears all the way from Arizona.

It is unlawful to knowingly put inaccurate information on a loan application to a private bank with the intention to get a better deal than you otherwise would. This is literally the quintessential example of fraud.

Muh Russia

Sorry this is getting heated. I know it's a touchy subject.

I really do hope you and your wife are doing well. I remember last time you told me how you have to "keep her in line" sometimes. I hope that's stopped. It's definitely not a great thing when that happens, and it can be hard to see where the acceptable line is if you're drinking. So I really do hope you're doing better than the last time we talked.

No, you're making shit up again. And the primary source of THIS lie is that you're assuming intent. And anyone who's listened to Trump talk for longer than 2 minutes, let alone worked for a BANK, is that Trump's only intent ever is to brag about himself. He brags about bragging about himself. He didn't get a "better deal". He was worth several billion dollars, and the banks valuate the loans THEMSELVES.

Your entire argument boils down to what... He didn't know zoning restrictions on Mar-A-Lago? Doesn't matter, the banks would see that. And given the sheer number of properties Trump had worldwide, it's entirely possible he didn't know. What's the other? That he didn't know the square footage of his Penthouse in Trump Tower (which includes a roof and it's square footage)? This is the weakest garbage you can claim.

So, once again, not unlawful, not fraud, no complainant, nobody harmed. Just an outright theft attempt by a political prosecutor and political judge.

If there were some minor mistakes you might have a point. But they weren't minor. They were full appraisals that included breaking up MAL into residential properties, and Trump personally signed the agreement saying he couldn't do that.

So once again, very unlawful, and inferring intent is extremely obvious and a routine matter for courts to do.

Not unlawful at all. There was no fraud. You can go down to the bank today and list your vehicle as worth $500,000 on your loan application. The bank will valuate it themselves, determine that your little Prius is old, torn up from all your fat, and worth maybe $700. Not only is it not "fraud", you're so emotionally scarred they'd probably assume that that is truly how much it would take to cause you to sell your shitty car. This is why the banker testified, which you quoted, that the banks PREFER accurate information, but there's no auditing of them, and their customers rely mostly on estimates.

The problem with both the case, and the shit you're making up is that banks do not care what you report your shit as worth. They assess everything themselves. You will not deceive them. You cannot deceive them. According to Forbes estimates, Trump was worth ~$2.4 Billion at the time these loans started (2011). Nobody with $2.4 Billion is trying to get a "better interest rate". The banks provide them with the best interest rate from word go, especially when provided collateral.

Now, the funniest part about what you're claiming is that full appraisals were provided. Trump is not an appraiser. Other people are appraisers. Therefore, if Trump provided a full appraisal of Mar-A-Lago that indicated it could be lotted out, that's the Appraiser's bad, and you just wiped out your entire argument of the claim even coming from Trump in the first place.

As to your last pile of bullshit, that Trump "HIMSELF" signed an agreement not to lot out the property, okay. So what? Was he supposed to remember that? You remember every deal you made in 1985 and can recite them by heart? Also, before you answer that, how many dozens or hundreds of properties did you purchase between 1985 and 2011? Trump's pretty high up there.

Dang this sounds really bad but brazen and audacious.

I can't go list my vehicle as having 1/3rd the miles though. That is fraud. Same way I can't list my house as having 3x the square footage. That's fraud too.

Valuation is subjective. Things like square footage and the right to break lots into residential areas is not. So if I say "my car is worth 500k" that's not fraud as it's an opinion. But if I say "My car is worth 500k because the seats are made of solid gold", that is fraud as the seats are not made of gold.

Trump saying "MAL is worth a billion dollars" wouldn't be fraud, but he submitted a document that said "we believe its worth XXX dollars because you could break it apart into lots and sell it" even though he personally signed an agreement stating he doesn't have that right.

See the difference?


There's also the issue that a valuation is subjective but an APPRAISAL is objective. You can't just say "I think its worth 10 billion dollars" and submit that as a valid appraisal. Appraisals are objective measures based on expected market value. If you use bad methodology on an appraisal, like misrepresenting the right to break up a lot, that opens you up to fraud as well.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 3 2024 07:43pm

Oh this is probably the most brazen fraud case you will ever see. Dude had his own apartment built, lived there for over a decade, and then took a loan against it while representing it was 3x the square footage. Literally textbook fraud.

This is actually the kind of example I would actively avoid if I were teaching a class, because it's so stupidly obvious that it doesn't encourage any kind of critical thought.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 3 2024 07:39pm