Quote (IceMage @ 22 Jul 2020 00:01)

I'm a social conservative, but there's a base level of character and competence that I require of people I vote for. I acknowledge that a vote for Biden is almost definitely going to result in worse outcomes for social conservatism, but those aren't the only issues on the table.

If you boil this down to strictly policy issues, you're just not understanding anti-Trump people like myself.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 21 2020 03:01pm)

Which scenario is better for center-right people? For Trump to lose by a mid-sized but comfortable margin (say 4-5% or so, Obama/Romney style) while the GOP narrowly holds the Senate. This way, Republicans keep a seat at the table in national politics, Biden cant push any far-left agenda through and he would presumably also have to compromise on the ideology of his supreme court nominations. You'd get Merrick Garland instead of the next RBG. The establishment wing of the Democratic party (Biden-Pelosi-Obama) being able to point at the Republican Senate would also strengthen their position in their intraparty fight with the Bernie-Warren-Squad wing.

If Biden wins in a landslide, the Dems expand their House majority and take back the Senate, you will not only get some fairly lefty policies enacted, but also go back to the situation of the judiciary that we had in 2016, with the federal courts soaked with very liberal, activist judges. Then, any GOP agenda would be stopped dead in its tracks once they are back in power in 4-10 years.

It would also mean that the GOP would lose the populist, predominantly white working-class voters that Trump won for the party. And they would then have to win back the suburbs and minorities that Trump alienated without bleeding support among non-college whites. Rebuilding the party after a cataclysmic loss in 2020 would be a lot harder than just "go back to the Paul Ryan agenda" or "go back to what GWB was doing".

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 21 2020 03:11pm)

I think that's really the root of the divide between people like you and me: "would you prefer a leadership that's bad at executing/governing, but leads the country in the 'right' direction (from your point of view); or would you prefer an efficient government that leads the country in the wrong direction?"
I prefer the former, you prefer the latter, presumably because you aren't too hot for the ideological direction Trump is leading toward anyway.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 21 2020 06:11pm)

I think that's really the root of the divide between people like you and me: "would you prefer a leadership that's bad at executing/governing, but leads the country in the 'right' direction (from your point of view); or would you prefer an efficient government that leads the country in the wrong direction?"
I prefer the former, you prefer the latter, presumably because you aren't too hot for the ideological direction Trump is leading toward anyway.

Quote (IceMage @ Jul 21 2020 06:46pm)

That's not at all my point of view. Social conservatism is just one issue set, and electing Republicans hasn't done much of anything to advance the cause. Plus there's an argument to be made that a figure like Trump hurts the movement's moral credibility, which could be worse long-term than benefits of the judges.

Quote (IceMage @ Jul 21 2020 06:16pm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UGe4dVzExU

Oh boy.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jul 21 2020 06:51pm)

Moral credibility of Trump isnt comparably when were running against satanists.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 21 2020 06:11pm)

I think that's really the root of the divide between people like you and me: "would you prefer a leadership that's bad at executing/governing, but leads the country in the 'right' direction (from your point of view); or would you prefer an efficient government that leads the country in the wrong direction?"
I prefer the former, you prefer the latter, presumably because you aren't too hot for the ideological direction Trump is leading toward anyway.

Quote (thundercock @ 22 Jul 2020 00:21)

If the GOP keeps the Senate, the GOP will just obstruct, obstruct, obstruct. Why WOULDN'T they? McConnell is MASTERFUL at that. Now, if Romney was appointed majority leader, then I'd say the GOP can keep the Senate but that has no chance of happening. I don't think the Dems need help with intra-party issues because it's a non-issue in the Senate (progressives struggle to win state wide elections). There are FAR more moderate Democrat House members than progressive ones. It's literally a non-issue because progressives have almost no political power.

The GOP needs to win the presidency in 2024 if they want to keep a balanced judiciary IMO. The question is, which scenario is likely to guarantee that? My opinion is that the GOP is already living on borrowed time, so forcing an adjustment NOW is preferable to losing 2020 by 3%, 2024 by 4%, 2028 by 6%, etc.

Quote (IceMage @ 22 Jul 2020 00:46)

That's not at all my point of view. Social conservatism is just one issue set, and electing Republicans hasn't done much of anything to advance the cause. Plus there's an argument to be made that a figure like Trump hurts the movement's moral credibility, which could be worse long-term than benefits of the judges.

Quote (Skinned @ 22 Jul 2020 01:41)

You support a clown who crashed the economy lol.

You vote for the party that leaves the economy in the shitter 10/10 times.

We were doing so much better before him lol.

Why do you hate America?