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Aug 2 2021 03:45pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 2 2021 03:03pm)
To be fair: the vaccine commission not recommending child vaccinations does not imply that they advice against them - only that there is not enough data for an explicit and unequivocal recommendation.

Other than that, I agree. All across Europe, politicians more or less want to make vaccines mandatory, but they're too much of a coward to openly do so. Hence, they resort to nudging and teasing strategies which try to make life so unpleasant or even impracticable for the unvaccinated that they're forced give in.


I would prefer a waver approach to them. Sure, don't get the jab, but you're on the hook for your elective medical bills, in the US EMTALA wouldn't apply, etc. Then do what you want, live with your choices, don't poison the well.

This post was edited by Skinned on Aug 2 2021 03:45pm
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Aug 2 2021 04:09pm
Quote (Skinned @ 2 Aug 2021 23:45)
I would prefer a waver approach to them. Sure, don't get the jab, but you're on the hook for your elective medical bills, in the US EMTALA wouldn't apply, etc. Then do what you want, live with your choices, don't poison the well.


Could hospitals preemptively turn away covid patients without sufficient insurance, cash or securities to cover a potential treatment? Having to treat them first, only to then find out that these people have no savings and their run-down shack doesnt cover the cost either, would see hospitals ultimately end up shouldering the cost in most cases.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Aug 2 2021 04:09pm
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Aug 2 2021 04:16pm
Quote (fender @ Aug 2 2021 10:38pm)
you call it cowardice, i call it living in a society where the individual has a choice concerning their healthcare decisions. not surprised you don't get the difference though.

of course it's a fine balancing act between individual freedom and general public interest, and this is a borderline issue, since selfish pricks like ampoo and all the other science-denying nutjobs are endangering their fellow citizens with their behaviour. at the end of the day i think they have a right to be irresponsible little shitheads. i certainly oppose mandatory vaccinations, even though it's clear that getting everyone vaccinated would be the safest and fastest way out of the pandemic.

the funny thing is: had merkel decided to try and make vaccines mandatory, you'd be screaming bloody murder and going on about tyranny and fascism. since she didn't, you call it "cowardice". there's literally nothing she could have done you wouldn't bitch about, admit it.

also, i'd love to hear what exactly you think is making life "unpleasant and impracticable" specifically for anti-vaxxers in order to "force" them to get their shots. to me it seems like those people are responsible for many of the inconveniences that vaccinated people still have to endure - now and in the forseeable future.


listen sweetheart, if you insult me you might address me directly

so much for cowardice

i am not endagering anyone, i am a regular, healthy human being

but the propaganda has brainwashed sheep like you into believing that every person is some kind of danger

everyone who has an issue dealing with people can lock themselves into their basement forever (you are already in your moms basement, how convenient)

the really fun part is that nobody talked about the invisible merkel and i see no difference between outright mandatory vaccines and coercion, our state is just outsorcing the responsibility

i could walk into a restaurant with open tuberculosis, zero fucks given, as long as i have the shot for a disease with almost zero death rate among healthy people

if you wanna make this about responsibility fenderp, make all standard vaccines mandatory as well, which i have and recently refreshed

reported btw

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Aug 2 2021 04:27pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 2 Aug 2021 23:34)
That's the thing: they are trying to implement rules which will, in practice, leave no one a choice. Poorer antivaxxers will not be able to afford the 3++ tests per week for every member of their family. Places like restaurants, gyms and clubs will eventually no longer be accessible with a negative test and become vaccinated-only affairs. Various politicians dropped hints in this direction the last few days.

Or take a look at the recent law for returning vacationers: people coming back to Germany from a high-incidence country are subject to a minimum quarantine of 5 days if they are unvaccinated; even a negative test after the first day cannot shorten this. Since all our neighboring countries will become high-incidence this winter and almost no one can afford to just sit out a 5 day quarantine, this recent law will effectively mean that the unvaccinated cannot travel abroad this winter.


See the explanations above. Regarding the vaccination rate: according to my sources, the UK has 69% of its population with the first shot and 56.5% fully vaccinated. In Germany, the corresponding values are 61.7%/52.2%. So the difference is not all that large. Note that the Brits tend to report their vaccination rate with regard to their adult population, which makes the numbers seem bigger.


nothing you mentioned there leaves anti-vaxxers with no choice. in fact, you've been contradicting yourself by mentioning some of the measures of HOW to deal with those unwilling to get the shots while still NOT restricting their freedom to travel. concerning your example, "poorer antivaxxers" don't need "3++" tests per week for themselves AND their family, what are you even on about? kids don't need negative tests, and if you're so poor that you can't afford a test, you surely weren't going to the restaurant "3++" times a week. you're reaching so hard to make your silly little narrative work. as of yet, tests are free anyway.
i don't think it would be unreasonable at all to let the people who are CHOOSING to endanger everyone in their surrounding to at least pay for their tests (which, again, are pretty fucking cheap by now). you trying to portray that as some kind of insurmountable obstacle, a devious plan to FORCE them to get vaccinated is ridiculous. again, the REAL inconveniences and limitations are those resulting from people rejecting to protect themselves and those they come in contact with for no good reason. again, i'm in favour of their right to do that, but you're (obviously for political reasons) having it the wrong way around when you're acting like THEY are the one's suffering from others...

what "explanation"? uk's case and death numbers (currently at 75/day, compared to 19 in germany - 7 day average) are much higher, and that's despite them having a smaller population (66M compared to germany's 83M) and a much faster vaccine rollout: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/#graph-cases-daily

so i don't know if that's the shining example you seem to think it is. i would LOVE for it to be - unlike antivaxxer conspiracies suggest, i can assure you that no one loves to be limited in their freedoms, wear masks everywhere, get tested, and all the other shit we have to do these days.

This post was edited by fender on Aug 2 2021 04:40pm
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Aug 2 2021 06:54pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Aug 2 2021 06:09pm)
Could hospitals preemptively turn away covid patients without sufficient insurance, cash or securities to cover a potential treatment? Having to treat them first, only to then find out that these people have no savings and their run-down shack doesnt cover the cost either, would see hospitals ultimately end up shouldering the cost in most cases.


We have EMTALA in the United States, so universal healthcare without universal insurance. It is why individual services cost so much for people who actually pay.
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Aug 3 2021 04:46am
Quote (Skinned @ 3 Aug 2021 02:54)
We have EMTALA in the United States, so universal healthcare without universal insurance. It is why individual services cost so much for people who actually pay.


Okay, so my question then is: would it actually be possible and feasible to have people waive EMTALA?
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Aug 3 2021 06:47am
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Aug 3 2021 07:40am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Aug 3 2021 02:47pm)


Quality stuff sold out in 10 minutes apparently
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Aug 3 2021 08:02am
Quote (Djunior @ 3 Aug 2021 13:40)
Quality stuff sold out in 10 minutes apparently


Oh, maybe i'm in denial :)

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Aug 3 2021 08:15am
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Aug 3 2021 11:00am
Australians are being ordered away from beaches by police helicopters in order to reach ‘Zero Covid’

Is zero covid a realistic strategy with the ultra contagious indian variant?
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