which 'lefties' in the media specifically want a war? have any concrete examples? just to be clear, reporting critically on trump does not make you 'left' or 'fake' - we should not just run with those idiotic labels just because certain people can't intelligently respond to criticism and have to resort to delegitimising those that oppose them.

mainstream media rarely platforms progressive left-wing political voices and positions, while constantly featuring and pushing establishment and neocon candidates and talking points.

obviously there will never be true unification, what i meant was a peace treaty between the two largest militant states that are currently in a drawn out conflict which the USA profits off of by selling weapons to one side.

The Saudis and Iranians calling a ceasefire is bad for the Military Industrial Complex.



examples: all of them. as they all stand to profit majorly from covering it. especially in the perspective of "Trump did an oopise".

do i have a quote from Don Lemon saying "i really wish Trump got us into war so my ratings would go up"? no. do we have any examples of warhawks saying "I wish we were at war so i can make more money from weapons sales"? no.

you don't understand. my point is not that i think MSM wouldn't be licking their chops over the business opportunity (just for the record: note how that's not the same as an ideological / political position) that war is to them, what i'm saying is that suggesting mainstream media is 'the left' is ridiculous. they hate the left. they silence them, they patronise and mock them, they are significantly more critical of them than of anyone else. MSM loves the likes of clinton, biden & buttigieg. they are very much part of the establishment. the left strictly opposes war.

again, just because the cult bought into the 'everyone who reports critically on trump is both fake and left' narrative, doesn't mean that's true. it's obvious that you hate vivi and want to disagree, but even with that in mind, you should be smarter than just perpetuating that idiotic talking point.

in the context of "the mainstream media isn't leftist" its one of those conversations where the gap is likely too far between us for any worthwhile conversation.

they're certainly more motivated by business than politics, but they're also almost all left of center politically. if you took an honest poll of the 2016 election from every news anchor from CNN, MSNBC, ABC, & NBC of their votes you'd find 75%+ voted for HRC, and likely still voted DNC in the midterms 2 years later. they all voted for Obama, twice. etc. They're democrats. the opposite would be true of Fox News, and likely well above 75% given how they deal with insubordination. Stomping on the left by them just has to do with how they value business over party.

as to hating Viv, i don't hate them at all. I dislike many of their opinions, but I have a lot of common ground in opinion as well. plus years of lively conversation on topics ranging from LGBTQ issues to religion to philosophy. If Viv was coming to wisconsin i'd give them a hug, i'd buy them a beer and a basket of cheese curds, and have a great conversation. Hate is the path to the darkside.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 9 2020 10:37am

in that imaginary 'honest poll' - how many do you think voted hillary over bernie in the primaries? you're deliberately ignoring the distinction between 'establishment' and 'the left' here. msm are establishment shills, they are politically much closer to trump than to bernie. they are NOT the equivalent to FOX on the other extreme. that's just part of the BS 'fake lefty news' narrative, and it's quite frankly rather disappointing to see you perpetuate it so uncritically...

originally i said nothing about fox, and then i said fox is MORE right than the MSM is left. so i'll just assume that "equivalent" part is in response to someone other than me lol.

i'm not ignoring left vs establishment, its just not my point. as i said, their business motivations lead them down a more establishment path than a politically left path, in terms of their coverage. but leftists not broadcasting the most progressive line of thought doesnt change their position with regards to center. they're left of center, by and large.

in any case, my saying "the lefties in the media want war" further illustrates that leftists generally don't. identifying the leftists in media as warmongers separates them from leftists generally. i just find it funny that many people left of center hold them in such high regard when biases are being confirmed, when in reality their all liars who serve themselves and even stoke war with gaping hungry mouths. i'm glad when i see media personalities in lockstep with my thoughts, but i never forget who they are.

im smiling irl because this mirrors an argument i got in at a dinner party with some hardcore Bernie supporters. they got red faced and left screaming because i said my healthcare costs would increase in a medicare for all system, just a simple fact. i even said from a humanitarian perspective i'd be fine with the increase, just wanted to talk about reality. after they left, the table full of democrats that were left all recognized an issue in the democratic voters, only Bernie/Warren are "left enough". any other opinions are "establishment" or "status quo" and met with "we've waited long enough" if you criticize the likelihood they get written into bills.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 9 2020 10:58am

warmonger talk. youre an offender not a victim

This post was edited by TriboreTheRevolutionary on Jan 9 2020 11:22am

i take 'things that didn't happen' for 500, alex.

seriously though, your little anecdote does not refute the fact that main stream media generally pushes establishment agendas and candidates. stating that is not some irrational purity test, or an irrelevant distinction. no, it's a simple observation of a very obvious truth.

since you abandoned your imaginary 'honest poll', let me inform you about the result of the primary question: 90% of the democrats in msm chose hillary over bernie - and in additional questioning they revealed that they would choose ANY establishment republican over the likes of warren and sanders.

you claim that "many people left of center hold [mainstream media] in such high regard", when really they might just treat it like you do: they're glad when they are 'in lockstep' with their thoughts, but never forget who they are. is that so hard to imagine? other people are capable of nuance as well, you know? maybe they simply think that establishment shillery is the lesser evil compared to coordinated and organised attempts to delegitimise ALL critical media - ever thought of that possibility?

really reminds me of those lazy 'oh look, the left loves george bush / jon mccain now' narratives, when in reality it was simply the boring old circlejerk about 'civility', and basically everyone on the left was quick to point out their horrible political legacy.

Dont even know what this is in reference to tbh.



why are you using a tone that suggests we disagree? as i said, they are leftists, but their actions are business above party. I didnt offer my anecdote as "proof" of anything, i was just sharing a story from my life because it was tangentially related to our discussion.



how did i abandon anything? i said you're correct, just that it wasnt what I was getting at. yes, the media does support status quo candidates like HRC over Bernie. its odd you'd think i disagree with that given that i support Yang (which is what led to my anecdote irl), who's getting the 2016 bernie treatment by MSM.



there's a longstanding debate, in PARD especially, on the general credibility of journalism today. its a leftist overreaction to counter the right's "fake news" narrative, which is an overreaction to Trump. teeter totter. many posters act like the media is great, to counter the right's ideas that they're utter garbage. that's what i was referring to directly.



this just seems like another conversation where you misunderstood my point, likely because i didnt spell out 5 paragraphs of explanation in what was supposed to be a 1 sentence retort to Viv, and then when i explain that we in fact agree on almost all points you spend another few posts digging for disagreements. i find that odd, after-all im supposed to be the one coming after you relentlessly (see: your sig).

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jan 9 2020 12:12pm