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#5351
Jul 27 2021 01:52pm
Quote (thundercock @ 27 Jul 2021 15:48)
Why is looking at things the way voters will look at things a bad thing? The VAST majority of people aren't paying attention and the election is the last thing on their mind. The "Muslim Ban" may have galvanized voters a bit but I'm pretty sure that the child separation policy at the border was a much more salient issue for activist voters. Looking at that list, I think it's pretty obvious that the more recent events were much more impactful i.e. Trump at Helsinki pissed more people off than Comey being fired. If inflation gets out of hand by 2022, do you honestly think anyone will care about COVID, stimulus checks, infrastructure spending, etc.

https://millercenter.org/president/trump/key-events

As per voter suppression, I think the Dems are making a mistake here. Voter ID laws, reducing voting hours, etc. won't have a tremendous effect on turnout (maybe up to 1%). The main issue is how nonpartisan offices at the county level are becoming significantly more partisan and the likelihood of people being disenfranchised AFTER the election is significantly higher. I think it's incredibly disingenuous and naive to say that "elections are going back to pre-covid levels."

they are “fixing” the ‘transitory’ inflation of 10%+ going on right now by raising social security distributions up. 6% increase next year will fix inflation so dont worry

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 27 Jul 2021 15:22)
wtf lol

This stance would imply that no expansion of voting modalities can ever be taken back. It would also imply that you consider the 2004/2008/2012/2016 election to have occurred in the presence of large voter suppression because voting was not as easy as it was in 2020.

many lefties like thor are still on that “certain groups are too stupid to get a government issued ID, and the government i worship is incapable of distributing them anyway” kink of theirs

voter suppression is only an issue if Democrats may get wiped out. 2020 rhetoric went from “you must vote by mail to save lives” to “vote on election day even if you have covid it’s your right”

of course theres no boogeyman to rally the base against for the lefties. hence any defeat will be blamed on ‘voter suppression’ and “russian hacking”, their most current fetish

This post was edited by excellence on Jul 27 2021 01:55pm
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#5352
Jul 27 2021 02:13pm
Quote (excellence @ Jul 27 2021 12:52pm)
they are “fixing” the ‘transitory’ inflation of 10%+ going on right now by raising social security distributions up. 6% increase next year will fix inflation so dont worry



I heard that most of the inflation is due to car prices being absurd right now so that really should go away. One could argue that the stimulus checks were too large but I imagine we'll have to wait for years to validate that theory. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the housing market. How many people will be underwater with their mortgage by next year?
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#5353
Jul 27 2021 02:15pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 27 2021 02:22pm)
wtf lol

This stance would imply that no expansion of voting modalities can ever be taken back. It would also imply that you consider the 2004/2008/2012/2016 election to have occurred in the presence of large voter suppression because voting was not as easy as it was in 2020.

It's the bulk of what they're doing. Sure, some shit goes even further, like the rule that you can't hand water to voters waiting in line in Georgia. Or when the Texas GOP ruled that every county, even a ginormous one like Harris county (Houston) with its 4.7m people, can only have one single ballot dropbox. That shit is actual voter supression and I dont support it.


Whether an expansion can be taken back is dependent on values. Were elections in the 1800's done under massive voter suppression? Absolutely. You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disagrees. Same with 2004-2018. They were suppressed because massive and realistic expansions to voting were constantly fought because one party benefits. They're also closing inconvenient voting locations, shifting around funds, and doing everything they can to make voting in populated areas as hard as it can possibly be.

Sounds like you agree with me. The GOP isn't just rolling back 2020 voting measures, they are attempting to suppress the vote same as they were in 2018 and before. So why not just agree and move on instead of cherry picking the rollbacks?

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Jul 27 2021 02:15pm
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#5354
Jul 27 2021 02:23pm
Quote (thundercock @ 27 Jul 2021 21:48)
Why is looking at things the way voters will look at things a bad thing? The VAST majority of people aren't paying attention and the election is the last thing on their mind. The "Muslim Ban" may have galvanized voters a bit but I'm pretty sure that the child separation policy at the border was a much more salient issue for activist voters. Looking at that list, I think it's pretty obvious that the more recent events were much more impactful i.e. Trump at Helsinki pissed more people off than Comey being fired. If inflation gets out of hand by 2022, do you honestly think anyone will care about COVID, stimulus checks, infrastructure spending, etc.

https://millercenter.org/president/trump/key-events


Hmmm, maybe. But then again, this does not address my second point: the border situation will not get magically under control again; the crisis will stil be urgent in 2022 if Biden doesn't solve it. Voters might not care about the trecks which came 18 months earlier in March 2021 - but they will care about the trecks that were coming in during September 2022.


Quote
As per voter suppression, I think the Dems are making a mistake here. Voter ID laws, reducing voting hours, etc. won't have a tremendous effect on turnout (maybe up to 1%). The main issue is how nonpartisan offices at the county level are becoming significantly more partisan and the likelihood of people being disenfranchised AFTER the election is significantly higher. I think it's incredibly disingenuous and naive to say that "elections are going back to pre-covid levels."

Post-election disenfranchisement is a far more serious issue, but that's up to the courts to address. REEEEEing about "Jim Crow 2.0" will not do anything to solve it.
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#5355
Jul 27 2021 02:24pm
TBH dems spend enough time each year complaining about voter suppression to solve most of them if they just educated their voter base and worked on solutions to them like IDs, polling locations, poll times, etc.

comparing 2004-2018 to the 1800s is also fairly laughable.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jul 27 2021 02:24pm
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#5356
Jul 27 2021 02:26pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 27 2021 01:24pm)
TBH dems spend enough time each year complaining about voter suppression to solve most of them if they just educated their voter base and worked on solutions to them like IDs, polling locations, poll times, etc.

compating 2004-2018 to the 1800s is also fairly laughable.


voter ID .......................REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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#5357
Jul 27 2021 02:29pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 27 2021 01:23pm)
Hmmm, maybe. But then again, this does not address my second point: the border situation will not get magically under control again; the crisis will stil be urgent in 2022 if Biden doesn't solve it. Voters might not care about the trecks which came 18 months earlier in March 2021 - but they will care about the trecks that were coming in during September 2022.


I think it would have to be REALLY bad for people to care. This shit has been going on for decades and while it causes a lot of resentment, I think it's rarely a top 3 issue for the electorate as a whole. Ultimately, people are selfish and they are going to care about jobs and other economic indicators first.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 27 2021 01:23pm)

Post-election disenfranchisement is a far more serious issue, but that's up to the courts to address. REEEEEing about "Jim Crow 2.0" will not do anything to solve it.


The courts are way too slow to address post-election issues. I agree that mischaracterizing it as Jim Crow 2.0 is stupid but I think the Democrats are between a rock and a hard place. Ultimately, too many people don't believe in democracy in this country and I really don't know how you solve that. Hopefully there are enough serious people who are capable of standing up to the fucking morons/fascists.
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#5358
Jul 27 2021 02:29pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 27 Jul 2021 22:15)
Whether an expansion can be taken back is dependent on values. Were elections in the 1800's done under massive voter suppression? Absolutely. You'd be hard pressed to find anybody who disagrees. Same with 2004-2018. They were suppressed because massive and realistic expansions to voting were constantly fought because one party benefits.

That's a ridiculous take...


Quote
Sounds like you agree with me. The GOP isn't just rolling back 2020 voting measures, they are attempting to suppress the vote same as they were in 2018 and before. So why not just agree and move on instead of cherry picking the rollbacks?

We disagree on the scope of the unreasonable rollbacks, and on the distribution between reasonable (go back to pre-2020 rules) and unreasonable (fuck voting in Democratic places) rollbacks. You make it sound as if the latter make up 70++ percent of what the GOP bills are doing...
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#5359
Jul 27 2021 02:31pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 27 2021 03:29pm)
That's a ridiculous take...

We disagree on the scope of the unreasonable rollbacks, and on the distribution between reasonable (go back to pre-2020 rules) and unreasonable (fuck voting in Democratic places) rollbacks. You make it sound as if the latter make up 70++ percent of what the GOP bills are doing...


I'd say a solid 80% of what you're responding to is what you wish I said, instead of what I actually said.

My posts were short, sweet, and to the point, and you're acting like I typed up a thesis on why Republicans are Satan.
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#5360
Jul 27 2021 02:32pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 27 2021 03:24pm)
TBH dems spend enough time each year complaining about voter suppression to solve most of them if they just educated their voter base and worked on solutions to them like IDs, polling locations, poll times, etc.

comparing 2004-2018 to the 1800s is also fairly laughable.


It's just an extreme example to prove the concept. In 100 years we will likely be seen as a backwards time of difficult voting, same as we see 100 and 200 years ago.
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