Can someone try answering these yes/no questions, and if any of the answers are "no", explain briefly your reasoning (without deflecting, thanks):

1. Israel has oppressed Palestinians for decades. yes/no
2. Israel has stolen Palestinian land for decades. yes/no
3. Israel does not give Palestinians equal rights yes/no
4. Israel has killed Palestinians for decades at a ratio far in excess of 1:1. yes/no
5. Israel is bombing hospitals and schools yes/no
6. Israel propped up Hamas, and is therefore complicit in anything Hamas has done. yes/no
7. Israel is employing collective punishment on Palestinians yes/no

If someone wants to do a similar yes/no questions, I will gladly answer them in return, I will even answer them first.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 11 2023 07:24am

- 1 & 3 can be concatenated eventually
- settlements for 2
- economical destruction
- israeli arabs sad reality
- hamas/muslim brotherhood got more priviledges in an occupation context, but yes the results is to be "propped up"
- 4 you can write > 10:1 easily even > 20:1 for children
- I would add the water contamination.. Did you know about it ?

.

1. I'm done talking to antisemits
2. I'm done talking to antisemits
3. I'm done talking to antisemits
4. I'm done talking to antisemits
5. I'm done talking to antisemits
6. I'm done talking to antisemits
7. I'm done talking to antisemits

1. Yes, Palestinians have been denied their own self determination. That's not inherently a bad thing, like post WW2 axis powers being oppressed by their occupiers
2. No, land conquered isn't stolen, and irredentist claims to lands are meaningless a generation or more removed
3. Yes (badly templated as a double negative), if Palestinians had equal rights all the jews would be dead by now
4. Yes, the ratio is heavily skewed in favor of the superpower military and not the guerillas in tunnels
5. Yes, Israel is bombing the Hamas headquarters underneath hospitals
6. No, Israel did the most minimal prodding during the Hamas-Fatah divide decades ago that even at the time barely amounted to propping up Hamas, and has actively campaigned against them since. Far less than the US "propped up ISIS"
7. No, collective punishment can't encompass collateral damage that is unavoidable or necessary for legitimate military aims, and Israel does not engage in any form of reprisals against civilians unless you're going to count reciprocal measures against the martyrs bounties like demolishing homes of terrorists

This post was edited by Goomshill on Nov 11 2023 08:05am

I am debating in good faith

ok, lets look at these one at a time, you try to convince me and I try to convince you. the statement is:

"2. No, land conquered isn't stolen, and irredentist claims to lands are meaningless a generation or more removed."

There is a lot in that one sentence from you. I am going to break it down into parts:

1. What do you mean, or what is your overarching principal, which has led to the statement "land conquered isn't stolen" ? Does this relates to all conquered nations everywhere? (btw This view suggests the principal might is right).
2. "irredentist claims to lands are meaningless a generation or more removed" - this as i understand it relates to the principal that as Palestine was conquered and its peoples scattered decades ago, all claims to Palestinian ownership of said land is now irrelevant. Is this your interpretation/view?
3. Based on (2) above, is this what is used to contend that the current expansion of Israeli settlements in the west bank and elsewhere are lawful, on account that the land is now Israeli, has been Israeli for decades, and therefore Palestinians currently living in the West Bank (or elsewhere in Israel) are living on borrowed time, effectively squatting there, until such time as Israel finds a use for the land, in which case, they seize the land, on the basis that they took the land decades ago, and all we are seeing now is the physical present manifestation of the war won decades ago. (On a side note, if this is the view of many Israeli's, then I am beginning to understand the Israeli logic re: the settlements). Is this also the reason for the apartheid state in Israel, on account that it is not the intention of Israel to recognize Palestinian identity, noting the country is now, and forever more, Israel ?
b.) this is probably a part of a) (above) - are you contending that any new lands seized, are not seized now, they were the spoils of war decades ago, but that Israel just did not get around to settling the area until now.

This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 11 2023 08:56am

as you know i edit my posts alot, the time limit to edit expired, i meant to say "all claims to Palestinian ownership of said land, both historic and current are now irrelevant."

Hamas killed nearly 1000 people in terror attacks and then hid behind their Palestinian supporters. If I was Israel, I'd kill them all. I'd have no remorse at all because they've been tryin to kill me since 1948. If any country constantly attacked ANY OTHER strong country on the face of the earth for 75 years, they victor would have wiped the loser off the planet long ago.

This post was edited by Superman on Nov 11 2023 09:09am

You are supporting the extermination of millions people without having any kind of decent (or fair) knownledge of the events.

We've already seen them(IDF) and the whole world try to make a humanitarian corridor for the Gazan/Palestinian people into Egypt and other countries at the same time you'd have Hamas have a perfect "tunnel" and could easily launch more attacks by just moving a couple dozen units within and around those "regular people who want nothing to do with it".

So if you have satellite technology and can see within a group of 100-500 "regular civilians" moving towards the Egyptian boarder but interspersed is 50 Hamas terrorist how do you proceed as Israel knowing full well if you let those people get away(Hamas) they will go to another country and simply radicalize even more people and then you have 500 terrorist coming back at you 10 years from now. Everyone has admitted how long this conflict has been going on but only now do we care about the innocent civilians caught in between?

I always bring this up because all I hear about is "dead babies" now. The United States using food sanctions/military intervention alone killed 500,000 children in Iraq. No one gave a fuck about them! & Madeline Albright said "the price was worth it".

So you think Israel is just gonna "soften up" because the world and all the people bitching in the first world specifically are crying those fake liberal tears like they give a shit?

Highly unlikely imo

even with only decent or fair knowledge of the events, killing civilian populations indiscriminately should be construed by all as morally wrong. Alas, our species has not evolved to that point and it remains to be seen if we will survive that long. It boggles my mind how users can freely suggest wiping out a people. The motto "might is right" is ever the path taken throughout history when atrocities go unpunished. I guess if India emerges within the next 50 years as the #1 superpower and nukes the world, the world can only say "sure we were losers and we deserved it".



I am not sure this is a sound argument for killing 1000's of babies in Gaza.


This post was edited by ferdia on Nov 11 2023 09:52am