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Sep 22 2019 05:49pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 22 2019 07:44pm)
Cam would have been rallying against the overthrowing of kings since they owned the property and taking it would be theft.


A pathetic fabricated lie.

Quote (Knoppie @ Sep 22 2019 07:44pm)


No.

Quote
/e: do we need to abolish property rights?

Obviously not.

This post was edited by cambovenzi on Sep 22 2019 05:49pm
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Sep 22 2019 05:51pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 22 2019 07:49pm)
A pathetic fabricated lie.

but then how do we get from lands owned by kings to my uncle owning his own house somewhere in london england?
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Sep 22 2019 05:53pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ 23 Sep 2019 00:42)
Another lie from the low IQ freakshow


Molyneux isn't a white nationalist?
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Sep 22 2019 05:56pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 23 2019 01:49am)
A pathetic fabricated lie.



No.


Obviously not.


Intellectual property is not liberty.. ^^ good enough for today.
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Sep 22 2019 05:56pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 22 2019 06:49pm)
A pathetic fabricated lie.


If he owns the land it would be aggression to take it
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Sep 22 2019 06:09pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Sep 22 2019 07:51pm)
but then how do we get from lands owned by kings to my uncle owning his own house somewhere in london england?


How is this relevant to what I said?

There was a long series of events that led to the monarchy losing power and people gaining more freedom.

Quote (thor)
If he owns the land it would be aggression to take it


You are falsely presupposing libertarians think a king claiming all the land and all the people inside it is justified and valid and coincides with libertarian property rights.
Thats incorrect.
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Sep 22 2019 06:18pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 22 2019 08:09pm)
How is this relevant to what I said?

There was a long series of events that led to the monarchy losing power and people gaining more freedom.



You are falsely presupposing libertarians think a king claiming all the land and all the people inside it is justified and valid and coincides with libertarian property rights.
Thats incorrect.


i read a quote on your sig and am wondering about this long series of events that led to the monarchy losing power and can't wrap my mind around how that can be done without violence or aggression

also, what do you mean by "justified and valid"?
history is quite clear that the monarchy owned the land at some point, on what grounds would anyone argue that is not justified or that their ownership of the land is invalid?
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Sep 22 2019 06:19pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 22 2019 07:09pm)
You are falsely presupposing libertarians think a king claiming all the land and all the people inside it is justified and valid and coincides with libertarian property rights.
Thats incorrect.


So what constitutes "libertarian property rights"? Because I've literally never heard of a conception of property specific to libertarians, and I've honestly never heard a libertarian talk about what makes some property valid or not valid.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Sep 22 2019 06:20pm
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Sep 22 2019 06:51pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Sep 22 2019 08:18pm)
i read a quote on your sig and am wondering about this long series of events that led to the monarchy losing power and can't wrap my mind around how that can be done without violence or aggression

also, what do you mean by "justified and valid"?
history is quite clear that the monarchy owned the land at some point, on what grounds would anyone argue that is not justified or that their ownership of the land is invalid?


The quote in my sig doesn't say violence is never justified or never happened.

Quote (Thor123422)
So what constitutes "libertarian property rights"? Because I've literally never heard of a conception of property specific to libertarians, and I've honestly never heard a libertarian talk about what makes some property valid or not valid.



a brief summation:
Quote
As Hans-Hermann Hoppe argues in A Realistic Libertarianism and many other pieces, property rights arise only because of the fundamental fact of scarcity: the fact that in the real world human actors can have conflict over the use of scarce, rivalrous, material goods and means. To permit the peaceful, cooperative, productive, conflict-free use of scarce resources, property rights allocate a unique owner for each and every resource. The rules are simple, common sense, and natural. They are rooted in Lockean homesteading, or original appropriation: whoever has and uses a resource first has a better claim to it than a latecomer. And this basic rule is augmented by two others: consent, or contract; and rectification. If an owner contractually assigns (by gift, sale, etc.) the thing to someone else, then the recipient now has a better claim than the original homesteader. Indeed, he has a claim better than anyone else in the world, since he in a sense “piggybacks” on the title of his seller (“ancestor in title” in legal jargon). With respect to any third party, he has a “better claim” because he stands in the shoes of (called “subrogation” in the law) his seller, but with respect to the seller, he has a better claim because of the contract between them. And a third rule is based on rectification: if a property owner harms some victim, he owes some form of compensation or restitution, which may be satisfied out of the assets of the owner-tortfeasor. So if there is a dispute over who should have ownership of a given resource by two or more competing claimants, the libertarian answer is that we answer the question by appeal to these principles: who had it first, what contracts were engaged in, what torts were committed. These principles can be used to determine the owner of any contested resource.
- Stephan Kinsella

You can also refer to Human Action by Ludwig von Mises or a section of For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto by Murray N Rothbard titled 'Property Rights'
https://mises.org/library/human-action-0
https://mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto

A king and his men initiating violence and claiming ownership over everything and everyone is not homesteading or voluntary trade and is not consistent with the NAP.
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Sep 22 2019 07:10pm
Quote (cambovenzi @ Sep 22 2019 07:51pm)
The quote in my sig doesn't say violence is never justified or never happened.
a brief summation:
- Stephan Kinsella
You can also refer to Human Action by Ludwig von Mises or a section of For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto by Murray N Rothbard titled 'Property Rights'
https://mises.org/library/human-action-0
https://mises.org/library/new-liberty-libertarian-manifesto
A king and his men initiating violence and claiming ownership over everything and everyone is not homesteading or voluntary trade and is not consistent with the NAP.


But a King got his land by contract with God, and God has the original claim to the land.

Also, this would imply theft from a thief makes it yours, since the current land was stolen from the King who stole it.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Sep 22 2019 07:11pm
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