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Jan 8 2020 06:11pm
Quote (fender @ Jan 8 2020 04:45pm)
i really really hope this was the full extent of iran's official response - if so, we can all consider ourselves lucky that they have smarter leadership than america.

that said, it's pretty amazing how people, who acted like they were principled non-interventionists (which always was a weak and transparent excuse to cover for another one of trump's foreign policy blunders), just backed this move that had (and unfortunately still has) the potential to escalate into a major military conflict.
a few questions for those embracing the "we killed a terrorist and it didn't cost us anything" narrative:

- what do you think about the thousands of additional troops deployed to the middle east? not just in terms of its economic costs (strange how no one is asking how to pay for this), but also the fact that it's the exact opposite of trump's promise to get america OUT of the middle east?
- how does the fact that iran now also abandoned the nuclear deal, and might go back to developing nuclear weapons, fit into the 'masterful response' narrative?
- how many additional terrorist do you guess this escalation has created? hundreds of thousands mourning and protesting in the streets, shouting 'death to america' - a few of them will inevitably make it to a military base or even to the US. worth it?
- how would you evaluate fact that the likelihood of both parties returning to the negotiating table was decreased significantly by trump's hawkish approach towards iran?

i mean it's great that not more lives have been lost (yet), but people can't possibly be that shortsighted and ignorant to genuinely consider this a 'win'?!


Most of Trump's voters aren't non-interventionists, so I doubt they care.

- Deploying troops carries a cost, yes.
- The deal was not conducive to American interests.
- Shia terrorism is state sponsored, I don't think this will have a significant impact. The root cause of Shia terrorism is the Islamic Republic of Iran.
- What does the United States hope to gain via negotiation?
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Jan 8 2020 06:31pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 9 2020 01:11am)
Most of Trump's voters aren't non-interventionists, so I doubt they care.

- Deploying troops carries a cost, yes.
- The deal was not conducive to American interests.
- Shia terrorism is state sponsored, I don't think this will have a significant impact. The root cause of Shia terrorism is the Islamic Republic of Iran.
- What does the United States hope to gain via negotiation?


If anything Trump's drone strike made his voters support him even more.
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Jan 8 2020 06:44pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 9 Jan 2020 01:11)
Most of Trump's voters aren't non-interventionists, so I doubt they care.


while tend to agree (the only truly principled stance they have is to defend literally everything trump does), they still pretended to be non-interventionists in order to justify his blunder with the kurds - so i think it's just fair to point that out...

Quote (bogie160 @ 9 Jan 2020 01:11)
- Deploying troops carries a cost, yes.
- The deal was not conducive to American interests.
- Shia terrorism is state sponsored, I don't think this will have a significant impact. The root cause of Shia terrorism is the Islamic Republic of Iran.
- What does the United States hope to gain via negotiation?


that's only true if by 'american interests' you mean the interests of neocons. pretty sure most americans would rather see the two countries overcome their differences diplomatically, and don't want iran to have nukes. that said, in this thread you have already comprehensively demonstrated you don't understand, and more importantly, don't WANT to understand anything about the iran nuclear deal, which demonstrably halted their nuclear weapons program (one of the key goals, so much for question 4), so i'm not surprised you're doubling down on your ignorant stance.

as to your comment on 'shia terrorism', that's a bit of a non sequitur. even if i accepted your severly generalised characterisation of its organisation and funding, the recent events still have significant recruitment and legitimisation potential.
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Jan 8 2020 06:45pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Jan 8 2020 07:06pm)
If only they fought that hard against Obama.


One of the dumbest Trumpist talking points.

Quote (bogie160 @ Jan 8 2020 07:11pm)
Most of Trump's voters aren't non-interventionists, so I doubt they care.


Most Trump voters are swayable on a myriad of issues(if Trump is doing the swaying). That's why we call it a cult.

This post was edited by IceMage on Jan 8 2020 06:48pm
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Jan 8 2020 06:54pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jan 8 2020 07:45pm)
One of the dumbest Trumpist talking points.



Most Trump voters are swayable on a myriad of issues(if Trump is doing the swaying). That's why we call it a cult.


There are no hard principles in his camp, for real.
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Jan 8 2020 06:54pm
Quote (IceMage @ Jan 8 2020 05:45pm)
One of the dumbest Trumpist talking points.



Most Trump voters are swayable on a myriad of issues(if Trump is doing the swaying). That's why we call it a cult.


Go away Hillary.
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Jan 8 2020 07:11pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 9 Jan 2020 01:11)
Most of Trump's voters aren't non-interventionists, so I doubt they care.

- Deploying troops carries a cost, yes.
- The deal was not conducive to American interests.
- Shia terrorism is state sponsored, I don't think this will have a significant impact. The root cause of Shia terrorism is the Islamic Republic of Iran.
- What does the United States hope to gain via negotiation?


sunit terror is sponsored by the saudis .
from al bagdahdi to osama
the root cause of sunit terrorism is the kingdom of saudi arabia

the cause of both parties are actions taken by the US ( any other imperial state would do the same) over decades ?

terror = poor vs rich

This post was edited by TriboreTheRevolutionary on Jan 8 2020 07:14pm
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Jan 8 2020 07:22pm
so uh nobody going to comment on the twitter evidence that the Iran flight was a shootdown?
afaik the national media is still stuck in a narrative flux about whether it was 'mechanical issues', but arabic twitter has that image which may or may not be the real deal
https://twitter.com/AshkanMonfared_/status/1214956002455375872
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Jan 8 2020 07:23pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 8 Jan 2020 20:22)
so uh nobody going to comment on the twitter evidence that the Iran flight was a shootdown?
afaik the national media is still stuck in a narrative flux about whether it was 'mechanical issues', but arabic twitter has that image which may or may not be the real deal
https://twitter.com/AshkanMonfared_/status/1214956002455375872


what are we pretending it's not the case?
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Jan 8 2020 07:28pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 9 Jan 2020 02:22)
so uh nobody going to comment on the twitter evidence that the Iran flight was a shootdown?
afaik the national media is still stuck in a narrative flux about whether it was 'mechanical issues', but arabic twitter has that image which may or may not be the real deal
https://twitter.com/AshkanMonfared_/status/1214956002455375872


twitter as source.. its my sence of humor
:hug:
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