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Nov 25 2020 03:15pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 25 2020 09:29am)
here are my opinions:

1. the pre investigation something seemed fishy, likely pointed to troll farms and/or facebook ads being improper activity
2. the full blown mueller investigation was silly, a waste of time, collusion was dumb to even go after
3. a proper investigation would have been a far cheaper broader scope look at how social media is affecting our elections, and any potential fixes, be they legislation or more likely leaning on facebook. twitter, etc to clean shit up
4. while the investigation was too pricey, the manafort case specifically was fruit born, even if it wasnt worth the cost
5. FISA warrants and they're stupidly low bar for evidence should be the prevailing headline, and should be fixed
6. lastly, corporate influence generally requires registration so we can at least try and track it, unlike russian troll farms or laundered facebook ad buys. regardless of their impact, no me gusta.

i dont find any of these to be conflicting, all have adjusted with hindsight somewhat, and they neither condemn nor champion what happened.


1. The original FBI investigation seemed fine. It really wasn't a big deal IMO.
2. The Mueller investigation was only necessary once Trump fired Comey. Trump is just an incredible fucking moron
3. I'm not sure what you mean by this.
4. I imagine the Manafort stuff would have been caught anyway. Having a Special Counsel just gave more weight to everything IMO
5. I agree here. I don't know enough about this to give any reasonable reforms though
6. I actually liked Twitter's approach this election. They simply said "fuck it, you can't have any political ads." We probably need regulation where the ad says "Paid for by Terrorists for Bernie" and it needs to take up 25% of space. That organization must register for the FEC otherwise the distributor (i.e. FB, Youtube ,etc.) gets fined.
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Nov 25 2020 03:21pm
Quote (thundercock @ Nov 25 2020 03:15pm)
1. The original FBI investigation seemed fine. It really wasn't a big deal IMO.
2. The Mueller investigation was only necessary once Trump fired Comey. Trump is just an incredible fucking moron
3. I'm not sure what you mean by this.
4. I imagine the Manafort stuff would have been caught anyway. Having a Special Counsel just gave more weight to everything IMO
5. I agree here. I don't know enough about this to give any reasonable reforms though
6. I actually liked Twitter's approach this election. They simply said "fuck it, you can't have any political ads." We probably need regulation where the ad says "Paid for by Terrorists for Bernie" and it needs to take up 25% of space. That organization must register for the FEC otherwise the distributor (i.e. FB, Youtube ,etc.) gets fined.


by #3 i mean something like a congressionally handled bipartisan fact finding investigation, rather than a cash sinking criminally focused investigation. basically "what happened" vs "who can we put in jail".
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Nov 25 2020 03:21pm
Quote (thundercock @ Nov 25 2020 02:15pm)
1. The original FBI investigation seemed fine. It really wasn't a big deal IMO.
2. The Mueller investigation was only necessary once Trump fired Comey. Trump is just an incredible fucking moron
3. I'm not sure what you mean by this.
4. I imagine the Manafort stuff would have been caught anyway. Having a Special Counsel just gave more weight to everything IMO
5. I agree here. I don't know enough about this to give any reasonable reforms though
6. I actually liked Twitter's approach this election. They simply said "fuck it, you can't have any political ads." We probably need regulation where the ad says "Paid for by Terrorists for Bernie" and it needs to take up 25% of space. That organization must register for the FEC otherwise the distributor (i.e. FB, Youtube ,etc.) gets fined.



Comey was proven to be a liar and a crook. Should of been jailed.



Trump just pardoned Flynn.
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Nov 25 2020 03:40pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 25 2020 01:21pm)
by #3 i mean something like a congressionally handled bipartisan fact finding investigation, rather than a cash sinking criminally focused investigation. basically "what happened" vs "who can we put in jail".


I don't think Congress is capable of that anymore. Just look at Nunes vs. Schiff. Look at what happened with impeachment.

IMO, the Mueller report did a pretty good job communicating the "what happened" portion. At the end of the day, they Special Counsel referred a lot of the criminal activity to SDNY and other DOJ areas.
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Nov 25 2020 03:42pm
Quote (thundercock @ Nov 25 2020 03:40pm)
I don't think Congress is capable of that anymore. Just look at Nunes vs. Schiff. Look at what happened with impeachment.

IMO, the Mueller report did a pretty good job communicating the "what happened" portion. At the end of the day, they Special Counsel referred a lot of the criminal activity to SDNY and other DOJ areas.


It did a good job of communicating that like a sledgehammer does a good job of hammering a penny nail.

at the end of the day Manafort could have been sunk without it, obstruction was never really going to stick, and we could have gotten a stamp on "russia trolled us, but it didnt sink the election" for a way cheaper price tag.
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Nov 25 2020 03:48pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 25 2020 01:42pm)
It did a good job of communicating that like a sledgehammer does a good job of hammering a penny nail.

at the end of the day Manafort could have been sunk without it, obstruction was never really going to stick, and we could have gotten a stamp on "russia trolled us, but it didnt sink the election" for a way cheaper price tag.


I agree that it could have been cheaper. Had Trump not interfered, it would have been your standard run of the mill FBI investigation.
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Nov 25 2020 04:11pm
Quote (thundercock @ Nov 25 2020 03:48pm)
I agree that it could have been cheaper. Had Trump not interfered, it would have been your standard run of the mill FBI investigation.


Im sure its just my idealist nature, but i really think a body like congress/senate is the right pick for this kind of thing. the place the legislature has fallen to is sad, maybe its unrealistic, but from a civics standpoint it should be "the people" looking into it. not some closed door body like the FBI. if criminal behavior is found, pass it to the FBI.
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Nov 26 2020 01:08am
Quote (thesnipa @ 25 Nov 2020 23:11)
Im sure its just my idealist nature, but i really think a body like congress/senate is the right pick for this kind of thing. the place the legislature has fallen to is sad, maybe its unrealistic, but from a civics standpoint it should be "the people" looking into it. not some closed door body like the FBI. if criminal behavior is found, pass it to the FBI.


Congress (House or Senate) investigating something like that just doesnt work. In practice, it violates separation of powers since the president will almost always be the de facto leader of his party and almost always hold soft power over "his" senators and congresspeople. (He can threaten to prop up a primary challenger, or threaten to withdraw access to the WH from dissenters and weaken their power/influence over policy this way, etc.)

Conversely, if the opposition party controls Congress, such an investigation will predictably devolve into a partisan circus which is more concerned with landing blows on the president than uncovering the truth.

Congress will always be compromised by partisan interests and personal career considerations of all sorts. You're never gonna get a clean, neutral investigation out of it. In theory, a neutral, objective agency like the FBI is the right place for an investigation like this. The true crux in the Trump/Comey/Mueller/impeachment saga was the fact that the FBI itself had become compromised by partisanship, that its leadership was clearly working against the elected president.





More generally speaking, it is a huge problem that the federal bureaucracy is increasingly aligned with one of the two parties instead of being nonpartisan. And as the Trump years have shown, they are increasingly willing to flex their muscles to undermine a lawfully elected president who wants to steer policy in a direction they dont like. Many career bureaucrats were flouting the will of the American people, as expressed by the result of the presidential election. This is a really concerning precedent. Strange that all of you who were constantly worried about Trump eroding democratic norms and institutions never talked about this kind of norm erosion and undemocratic behavior.
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Nov 26 2020 08:33am
https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1331831468721655817

Thank God these people are so incompetent.
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Nov 26 2020 08:38am
Quote (IceMage @ Nov 26 2020 09:33am)
https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1331831468721655817

Thank God these people are so incompetent.


they just need more fat don8s!
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