yeah right, just ignore the fact that you got caught lying again in order to justify the russian invasion, hack.

pointing out that ukrainians rather risk their lives defending their country than handing it over to pootin and seeing their families genocided is just a FACT - that's literally what is happening right now. has nothing to do with "endsieg", lol.
also, your moronic "argument" that supporting ukraine means supporting nazis (totally not a kremlin narrative you keep pushing there, lol) backfires really quickly once you realise that the percentage of actual nazis in the russian military and mercenaries deployed in ukraine is at least as high, lol.

They didn't "leave Ukraine hanging", they intentionally worked for years to cause a war with Russia, because they thought they could easily win.

And they won't back down because they cannot. It is politically, economically and ideologically impossible for them to do so. The entire apparatus is on 'cause havoc' autopilot and anyone who could steer it somewhere else has been weeded out.

What narratives? And no, I don't think Ukraine should have been allowed to join, and I dont think they should join in the future. I think NATO should have said no.

On German media, I've read that some second- or third-tier official from Ukraine's government was asking for cluster ammunition and phosphor bombs because Russia allegedly is using those weapons already and his country needs to level the playing field.

https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/ukraine/id_100130892/ukraine-ruft-nach-streumuntion-und-phosphorbomben.html



He can of course fuck right off...

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 21 2023 03:26pm

I agree, I just figured "leave Ukraine hanging" was a more diplomatic way of phrasing it in reply to someone who most likely doesn't believe that to be the case.

the narratives in this post:



-ukraine is a corrupt nation and was denied due to corruption
-ukraine is now devastated and only NATO membership would have saved them

the two end results are:

1. let them in corruption and all to protect them
2. let them get devastated by not letting them in

and instead we chose

3. dont let them in but give them enough weapons to bleed the russian army even if they lose and half of the country goes to Russia


of course its important to give context to the fact that post 2014 the country was on the brink of a coup in any case and was going to topple the pro-russian govt in Kyiv with or without CIA help. we just tossed a thimble of gas on a bomb fire.

What are you having trouble understanding? I don't know what you mean by narratives, NATO has standards to meet, Ukraine did not meet them. Russia views the west as threatening and saying "Ukraine will join NATO, just not right now" paints a target on them, which it obviously did. Do you think Russia would invade an article 5 country? Maybe you do, I don't.

Whether the coup would have happened or not is irrelevant, it happened with western support and direction and Russia views that as threatening, if it's the case that it was already guaranteed then isnt that just a sign of the incompetence of US foreign policy?

That's like breaking into a crime scene to put your fingerprints on the murder weapon lol.

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html

^ The Burns (now CIA director) memo that shows the US knew exactly what would happen if Ukraine were to attempt to join NATO. It's not incompetence. The US competently made the war happen. They knew what to do to make it happen and then the did those things so that it would happen.

Misstating the intentional nature of US actions isn't 'being diplomatic', it's being untruthful.

The person I quoted was actually who I was talking to...again. I don't know why you are so hung up on how I phrased that particular comment but sure if it bothers you that much, the US intentionally baited Russia into a war? Happy?

Maybe spend your time arguing with people who don't agree with you lol

Hardly. The US and Canada (in particular) have been involved in a regime change project aimed at Ukraine since the October Revolution. The Canadian prairies basically served as an outpost for a fascist Ukrainian government-in-exile since the end of WW2. Canada intentionally sought out fascist Ukrainians to infiltrate and takeover the socialist Ukrainian groups that had previously been doing rotten things like creating a de facto universal healthcare system.

We've been sending radicalized Ukrainian diaspora into Ukraine for decades.

Really recommend Moss Robeson's work, mostly focusing on Canada. This substack started in 2020, it's not some retconning done on Vlad's orders: https://banderalobby.substack.com/archive?sort=new

Chrystia Freeland being Canada's deputy PM isn't some weird fluke, the Ukraine lobby in Canada is strong, something that the state promoted because Ukraine is a long-term weapon to use against Russia.