Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 16 2022 08:52am)
It is when its a color revolution backed and micromanaged by a foreign power, putting in place their puppet government. And its definitely not our first.
The tyrants who created the circumstances for a revolution always fall back on foreign influence arguments. Putin does it constantly. As if the people opposing tyrants necessarily has to be backed by some outside influence...
Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 16 2022 08:52am)
Have you ever seen me harping on some line about Russia restoring sovereignty? Just like I said a few posts back, their existence is now torn between being vassals for the east or the west. The most sovereignty Ukraine ever had in its history was still under the Russian thumb while in their sphere of influence prior to the Maidan, because at least they had free elections as a singular democratic entity. When that all got thrown out the window, its not like Putin came along as some noble benefactor to unify Ukraine and give them back their self determination.
This is some weird justification for Russian dominance of Ukraine. Me thinks the Ukrainians can do better.
Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 16 2022 08:52am)
You are spot on when it comes to the fact that once a democracy is shattered, that state no longer exists. And the original aggression that sparked this conflict out of a previously stable status quo was emphatically not by Russia, but against it. NATO expanding all the way up to their doorstep by force and spending 8 years ineffectively shelling the separatist regions. So as someone aware of both the morally damnable and pragmatically self-defeating history of the CIA's interventions and proxy wars, why should I support it this time around? At least when it took place in fuckaluckistan, it didn't threaten world war 3 or blow up the global economy, so we had the luxury of not caring.
You take the position of blaming America or the West in the Ukrainian war context, and the rest of us take a reasonable position.