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Sep 9 2022 03:21pm
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 9 2022 04:18pm)
Then you've solidly moved from the realm of philosophy to the realm of practicality. It might be practical to take that person and forcibly detox them, but morally you don't get to remove their agency. Any perception of loss of agency you are seeing is actually society treating them poorly, rather than they themselves doing something that resulted in a lost agency.


perhaps we're not arguing the same term. agency being as i have used it as an action made consciously be a person, whereas in my opinion someone in the deepest depths of addiction isnt calling the shots, the drugs are. relapses are of course a use of a person's agency, but in my opinion in some cases use of drugs may not be.

i recognize this flies in the fact of textbook NA narratives, that accountability for one's actions at every stage and remorse for them are a prerequisite to sobriety.
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Sep 9 2022 03:32pm
What you are suggesting is torture and wont make them less of an addict.
Treatment is necessary
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Sep 9 2022 03:39pm
Damn the lack of knowledge and above all compasion for addicts.
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Sep 9 2022 03:49pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 9 2022 04:21pm)
perhaps we're not arguing the same term. agency being as i have used it as an action made consciously be a person, whereas in my opinion someone in the deepest depths of addiction isnt calling the shots, the drugs are. relapses are of course a use of a person's agency, but in my opinion in some cases use of drugs may not be.

i recognize this flies in the fact of textbook NA narratives, that accountability for one's actions at every stage and remorse for them are a prerequisite to sobriety.


They simply haven't lost their agency. They still have the capacity to make decisions. Their agency isn't perfect, because your agency is never perfect, but they still have the capacity for choice.
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Sep 9 2022 03:51pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 9 2022 11:09am)
with too much politics these days i think we need a moral question instead.

(this is not a legal question, obviously it's illegal. and i'm not asking if it should be legal or illegal, just asking if it's moral)

If you have a family member who's severely addicted to drugs, like think hardly recognizable, homeless living on the streets, "beyond help".

Is it moral to kidnap them, lock them in a room in your house, and force them to detox?

and let's assume their detox is confirmed non-fatal, so nothing that will kill them just cause suffering.

I dont have any family or friends in this state, but have long though that this is what i'd do. just make a prison cell in my basement and keep them there fed and healthy for a month or so. long enough to detox and hopefully avoid an instant relapse.



This is okay only if you wear squid games outfit and speak only with a voice scrambler.



Really though there are other ways, but yours is most effective. You can always make a fake suicide threat which forces them to be evaluated by a hospital. 72 hours clean right there.

If it were my son or daughter I’d shackle them to the floor black snake moan style. If they are really put rippin’ and runnin’ there is nothing worse you can do than what they are already doing to themselves.

That being said there is no way to prevent a relapse besides changing their mind. You can go to prison for years and come out an instant user if you don’t want to stay clean.
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