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Jan 18 2022 12:29am
Not sure if you know the definition of the word bias but it is literally impossible to be un-bias
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Jan 18 2022 12:57am
Quote (addone @ 17 Jan 2022 21:24)
Just watched some more, what a douchebag. Talks in a teenage whiny pitched voice, formulates a statement/question to Kirk with a smug face thinking I got him now. Kirk calmly starts giving facts and answers a few words in and Hasan is already interrupting you can immediately see "oh shit, that sounded better in my mind" moments.

Overall gives you a good representation for how the left argues vs the right. Left straight up cant deal with facts, they melt. Next


Hasan is a shitty debater who resorts to insults when he identifies tired old talking points, but does a shitty job of clearly identifying the issue with the talking point and jumps between different counters with an expectation that the audience will know what he is referencing/saying so he doesn't need to extrapolate and make the point more clearly. Kirk is pretty clearly more comfortable with the "debate" format and sticks to talking points without mixing them up or going off his script.

However, Kirk's points were pretty much always just repeating "Venezuela, USSR, North Korea" and attributing any failures of a state attempting to implement leftist policy to socialism while always disregarding any failure of a state under a capitalist system as a consequence of corporatism that he personally opposes. He never addresses how unfettered capitalism and the policies of removing regulations leads to the capitalist system naturally concentrating capital/power, using that concentrated capital to engage in regulatory capture, and that his small government without enforcement mechanisms has no means to prevent those things from happening.

Capitalist interests use paramilitary and covert forces to assassinate/overthrow government trying to nationalize resources? Oh well I don't personally support that, but I'll still ignore it and blame the state failures on socialism.
Similar policies succeed in Nordic states and you support it? Well I'll just say that is actually capitalism and ignore when you say "I support what they have."
Other countries find ways to implement healthcare systems with better outcomes, cheaper prices, and more equity? I'll just ignore it and say if we got rid of all regulations and completely privatized it it would be better because Lasik. Lets completely ignore how new technologies emerging, maturing, and becoming more widely available/affordable is hardly something that can only happen under a laissez faire capitalist organization of an economy.

Similarly he repeats the talking points of capitalism bringing people out of poverty, but ignoring how many of those people brought out of poverty in the 20th century were actually in China or the USSR. He attributes famines to socialism, when famines were common under every system in those locations for thousands of years. He never attributes the famines in places subjugated by imperial/capitalist countries/interests to capitalism. He attributes all technological advances and costs decreases to capitalism, as if those advances were impossible under any other system, happened only because of the capitalist structure of the economy.

I think there would probably be two other major points that he kept going to. First of these was attacking Hasan for liberal policy, relying on the audience to link liberalism with socialism when Hasan like pretty much any actual leftist regularly shits on liberals and has a deep ideological grounding critical of liberals. He brings up shitty liberal hell holes like Chicago, but ignores pretty much all other external factors or other examples of "liberal" places with much better outcomes. Then the other big point he was going back to was using Florida as an example, particularly with regard to the school system & school choice. This is pretty much an extension of the previous point where he is cherry picking examples and ignoring other factors (e.g. long term consequences of conservative tax cuts on public services, the way services are funded and how differing demographics would result in different outcomes, ignoring positive "liberal" examples).
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Jan 18 2022 01:34am
Quote (crackersj @ Jan 16 2022 04:18pm)
I've already gotten a couple suggestions of unbiased content from PaRD and they're great so far.
But I'm lacking in the podcast department.
After watching a few videos from certain content creators I've come to realize how biased and full of lies my usual rotation is.
Can anyone suggest some longer form content I can listen to on Spotify or whatever the YouTube player is for locked phones.
I cannot debate anyone here and it's because I'm fairly ignorant on important issues because I don't get the whole true story.


you going to try to find a "middle ground" on topics and not offend any one? that should be interesting. Ill follow you.

any way? who to listen to? listen to all of them. give ev1 a fair shake see what falls out. might take you a couple of years sorting things out.

This post was edited by TiStuff on Jan 18 2022 01:51am
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Jan 18 2022 01:37am
Quote (LouisLeGros @ Jan 18 2022 07:57pm)
Hasan is a shitty debater who resorts to insults when he identifies tired old talking points, but does a shitty job of clearly identifying the issue with the talking point and jumps between different counters with an expectation that the audience will know what he is referencing/saying so he doesn't need to extrapolate and make the point more clearly. Kirk is pretty clearly more comfortable with the "debate" format and sticks to talking points without mixing them up or going off his script.

However, Kirk's points were pretty much always just repeating "Venezuela, USSR, North Korea" and attributing any failures of a state attempting to implement leftist policy to socialism while always disregarding any failure of a state under a capitalist system as a consequence of corporatism that he personally opposes. He never addresses how unfettered capitalism and the policies of removing regulations leads to the capitalist system naturally concentrating capital/power, using that concentrated capital to engage in regulatory capture, and that his small government without enforcement mechanisms has no means to prevent those things from happening.

Capitalist interests use paramilitary and covert forces to assassinate/overthrow government trying to nationalize resources? Oh well I don't personally support that, but I'll still ignore it and blame the state failures on socialism.
Similar policies succeed in Nordic states and you support it? Well I'll just say that is actually capitalism and ignore when you say "I support what they have."
Other countries find ways to implement healthcare systems with better outcomes, cheaper prices, and more equity? I'll just ignore it and say if we got rid of all regulations and completely privatized it it would be better because Lasik. Lets completely ignore how new technologies emerging, maturing, and becoming more widely available/affordable is hardly something that can only happen under a laissez faire capitalist organization of an economy.

Similarly he repeats the talking points of capitalism bringing people out of poverty, but ignoring how many of those people brought out of poverty in the 20th century were actually in China or the USSR. (China and USSR are not communist anymore. under communism they failed. Both countries are Capitalistic Oligarchies. and corrupt af) He attributes famines to socialism, when famines were common under every system in those locations for thousands of years. He never attributes the famines in places subjugated by imperial/capitalist countries/interests to capitalism. He attributes all technological advances and costs decreases to capitalism, as if those advances were impossible under any other system, happened only because of the capitalist structure of the economy.

I think there would probably be two other major points that he kept going to. First of these was attacking Hasan for liberal policy, relying on the audience to link liberalism with socialism when Hasan like pretty much any actual leftist regularly shits on liberals and has a deep ideological grounding critical of liberals. He brings up shitty liberal hell holes like Chicago, but ignores pretty much all other external factors or other examples of "liberal" places with much better outcomes. Then the other big point he was going back to was using Florida as an example, particularly with regard to the school system & school choice. This is pretty much an extension of the previous point where he is cherry picking examples and ignoring other factors (e.g. long term consequences of conservative tax cuts on public services, the way services are funded and how differing demographics would result in different outcomes, ignoring positive "liberal" examples).


Yea I don't doubt he probably had an insight or two worth listening but you cannot respect him as a debater/speaker. His strategy is to literally be louder and talk over the other person. Throw his hands in the air and go "That's rediculous!" I first laughed of how comical the whole debate was but then realised its aimed more towards young people who like drama and that kind of thing.
Anyway. to be fair Kirk did interrupt now and then as well.

There might be a few decent points to entertain which socialism offers but a vast majority of them are either nonsensical or have already been tried and failed countless of times. Left sometime has a hard time identifying actual problems and even if they managed to get that far their solutions are even worse then what's already in place.

This post was edited by addone on Jan 18 2022 01:39am
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Jan 18 2022 01:41am
Quote (SanduLungu @ Jan 17 2022 01:26am)
no such thing as unbiased content.

also lol @ hassan being recommended to you since he is a demented muslim terrorist supporter.


lefties :love: islam

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Jan 18 2022 03:19pm
Quote (toyake @ Jan 17 2022 01:29pm)
You might enjoy hasanabi or vaush if you're looking for entertaining leftist who stream daily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNNBnQn3K0


This is x10 better then that Hasan vs Kirk shouting match.
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Jan 19 2022 06:04am
this quest?
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Jan 19 2022 06:07am
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/

read multiple sources and cross them.
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Jan 19 2022 06:25am
Quote (TiStuff @ 19 Jan 2022 07:04)
this quest?


Ah. This one.
I've been listening to stuff.
Haven't been able to search for anything that hasn't been suggested though.
NetflixAdaptationWidow was right about my views being heavily skewed right.
People who claimed they were "left" were actually moderate center-right so my perspective was off.
I'm still in the "relearning" phase by going into topics I thought I knew but I only had that skewed right opinion.
I've known about Hasan amd Vaush for a while. It's just hard to find their content digestible because a lot of their streams are "owning the trumpets".
Still searching for someone like a Shaun who has a show that isn't a reactionary and just dives into topics like a Tim Pool but with a true left view.
Also I'm being fairly picky by requiring Spotify as I'm not allowed to have my phone out at work.

Quote (TiStuff @ 18 Jan 2022 02:34)
you going to try to find a "middle ground" on topics and not offend any one? that should be interesting. Ill follow you.

any way? who to listen to? listen to all of them. give ev1 a fair shake see what falls out. might take you a couple of years sorting things out.


It's impossible not to offend at least a few people but yes I'm trying to be someone who understands both sides in a real way.


This post was edited by crackersj on Jan 19 2022 06:30am
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Jan 19 2022 06:27am
Quote (Crunkt @ 18 Jan 2022 01:29)
Not sure if you know the definition of the word bias but it is literally impossible to be un-bias


Yes I should've used better terminology.
I know.
I guess what I'm looking for is a true left wing opinion that's isn't a blatant "owning the right" stream/podcast.
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