Pelosi and Schumer getting eaten by their own nutwings tonight

It's a pretty fascinating fight. From an electoral standpoint, progressives are basically untouchable and moderates stand a lot to lose so I understand why the progressives feel like they can play hard ball. However, if they tank the infra bill, they'll be out of power for several years while keeping their jobs. I'm of the opinion that getting 10% of what you want is a hell of a lot better than 0%. Right now, Manchin wants the spending bill trimmed down to 1.5T and he's not budging. Maybe they meet in the middle at 2.5T but it will probably be lower.

Exactly. The democrats had a year without a circular firing squad issue so they had to invent one out of wholecloth, its amazing. Theres absolutely zero benefit to this self imposed debacle, only aggravating the inevitable losses in 2022. Maybe Antifa will sink Manchin's houseboat before this is over.

No it's not lol, its an actual official definition from a dictionary. Terms evolve in their meaning. Its 2021, asking for a bridge or for a meat packing plant to to be built in your district is not the only thing that encompasses what pork means.

I know the basics of what's in, per some sources I've read. It's obviously doing a lot for people who dems would love to lock up as voters.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 1 2021 06:22am

dont worry the water-carrying media will be blaming the boogeyman before the start of Friday “evening” cocktail ‘hour(s)’ in DC. So at about 2 pm eastern time. And the usual suspects here and everywhere will eat it up because we all know they love propaganda pie

they do say that no matter how smart someone is if they are only as smart as their worst stance on a given issue is. kinda crazy that some ppl here have 4+ years of university under their belt and they cant understand a simple concept of morality. idk anything about whatever bill the republicans rage voted no to in full succession without a single one breaking rank but it takes no education to see that our government is fucked and republicans tend to be the beginners of the issue. and when you do the research to see why said republicans are doing these things and still support them? i have no words, fascism is begging to be released

how dare they? investing money into the working class, and not just making politics for their donors, like republicans do. because the former is essentially what you people describe as "pork", lol.

this is the basic problem of the republican party. they COULD do the same: actually have some popular policies and appeal to voters by doing stuff for them, but they are fully committed to "winning" elections purely based on ridiculous culture war issues, fearmongering, and voter disenfranchisement - while their policies are tailored to benefit the already rich and powerful.

always funny when you people accidentally admit that, but never connect the dots...

It is important to voters that their children be allowed to succeed on their individual merits, and that racism isn't taught in schools. Meritocracy is very popular. If these issues aren't very important to Democrats, and you're saying that they aren't, it's really a no-brainer to drop the politically toxic racism and embrace the popular policies you say American voters want. The Democratic party made the decision to tie themselves to Ibram Kendi. Unfortunately for them, that means they're going to lose a lot of seats. They need to take accountability for their decisions and learn from their mistakes, and they'll have the opportunity to do that as the minority.

Well yea....isn't that the point of politics? When Republicans fight for tax cuts and the middle class benefits, isn't that effectively the same thing?

As for the definition of pork, it really hasn't changed in the realm of people who follow politics closely. It's often misused by people in order to classify something they don't like because it's a derogatory term. Perhaps if it's misused enough, the definition will change but I don't think we're there yet. Anyway, it's a pedantic discussion and we should focus on the actual things in the bill that are problems as opposed to just calling it a name.

So, here are some of the things proposed in the bill:
1. Medicare expansion to cover dental, vision, and hearing. To me, this definitely isn't pork (even in the loosest sense of the word) and is merely an expansion of an existing program. IMO, this MUST be paid for by an increase in the Medicare tax because this is something where everyone benefits. Adding to the debt to fund this is unacceptable.
2. Medicare prescription drug price negotiation. This is a no brainer and will actually save tax payers money at the expense of Pharmaceutical profits.
3. Universal pre-K. In theory I support this but there's actually mixed evidence that this will have tangible benefits given
4. Tuition free community college. IMO, it's already cheap enough compared to universities
5. Making the COVID childcare tax credit permanent. I don't support this at all and it seems way too expensive. This is a massive expansion of the welfare state and I'm not convinced we should be giving parents $300 per month for every child no matter what.

There's more to it than the above such as some climate change initiatives (which will undoubtedly include pork in the strictest sense of the word), expanded elder care, etc.

From the above, which do you support/not support? To me, even the strictest of conservatives should support 2 under the assumption that Medicare will continue to exist.

That can and should be done at the local level. The fact that we're having a national discussion about it is pretty embarrassing. If Texas wants to teach that slavery really wasn't that bad and Washington wants to teach that being white is shameful, that's on them. I'm more concerned about literacy, mathematics, etc. and we need to have minimum standards in those areas. If we don't, our country will be raped by the likes of China.