d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Taliban Has Taken Control Of Afghanistan
Prev14567848Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 5529Replies: 472Track Topic
Member
Posts: 50,894
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,836.00
#51
Aug 16 2021 07:37am
well that aircraft the taliban inherited now has one less A-29, shot down by Uzbekistan while pilots tried to escape the Taliban advance, at least one pilot appeared to survive and be detained;

Quote
"Uzbekistan’s Defense Ministry has confirmed the fall of an Afghan Air Force plane in Surkhandarya. The ministry’s press-service explained to a Podrobno.uz correspondent that an attempt at violating the state border was upset. Military and law enforcement officials are pushing ahead with the probe into the incident," the news release runs.
Earlier, Gazeta.uz said that on Sunday evening a plane bearing the markings of Afghanistan’s Air Force crashed in the Sherabad district of the Surkhadarya Region. Photographs and video showing the plane’s debris and at least one injured person was uploaded to the Internet. Uzbekistan’s Defense Ministry later confirmed the very instance of the plane crash.
Member
Posts: 40,273
Joined: Mar 29 2006
Gold: 13.00
#52
Aug 16 2021 07:38am
Quote (Goomshill @ Aug 16 2021 06:23am)
Well the first step is being realistic about what you can and can't do. If your strategy is based around moon logic assuming you can do the impossible, you're going to fail at doing it.
The solution was to acknowledge that the Taliban was going to take over as soon as we left, and plan accordingly. That meant evacuating people, weapons and armor before it could fall into enemy hands.
Its a fundamental of war strategy as old as time itself, the difference between a retreat and a rout.

There wasn't some magical answer where Afghanistan was left as a western-style democracy where people are represented by a free and fair central government that respects individual liberties and progressive ideals. Flying an LGBTQ rainbow flag over the US embassy during a military occupation doesn't change the fact that Afghans are a bunch of regressive islamic tribal militias who treat women and boys as sex slaves. The best outcome was an organized withdrawal and forming at least basic agreements with the Taliban to ensure a peaceful takeover. We got that 'mostly peaceful' takeover, it seems largely from maneuvering by Russia and Arab powers and the Taliban's temperance, no thanks to US diplomacy / lack thereof. We certainly didn't get the organized withdrawal, we got a full blown rout.



So you believe the taliban would honor agreements they made?
Member
Posts: 50,894
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,836.00
#53
Aug 16 2021 07:43am
Quote (Acuity @ Aug 16 2021 08:38am)
So you believe the taliban would honor agreements they made?


As long as it was in their interests, sure. In fact, it appears that they're honoring the agreements they made... with Russia and Pakistan. The Taliban was all too happy to take over the country without a fight. When they could bribe regional governors to disband their ANA forces instead of fighting them, when they could march into Kabul without being shelled by anyone defending it. You weren't going to get the Taliban to agree to make any binding societal concessions, like demanding they abandon Sharia law or respect women's rights. At best you'd get them to lie about it. But it was definitely within our power to negotiate a bloodless, orderly handover to the Taliban that would give us time to evacuate westerners and interpreters and even weaponry. The Taliban weren't willing to fight battles over looted arsenals.
Member
Posts: 40,248
Joined: Feb 14 2007
Gold: 5,737.99
#54
Aug 16 2021 07:44am
“Is the Taliban takeover at this point inevitable?”

“No, it is not” - Biden

“Your own intelligence community has assed that the Afghan gov will likely collapse”

“That is not true” - Biden

“The likelihood that the Taliban overrunning everything & owning the whole country is highly, highly unlikely” - Biden

*Curb your enthusiasm music*



There’s going to be no circumstance where you’re going to see people being lifted off the roof” - Biden

*Curb your enthusiasm music*



The clowns at CNN aren’t even trying to spin this

“We’re watching a tragic foreign policy disaster unfold. It seems shocking that president Biden could have been so wrong” - Jake Tapper
Member
Posts: 18,212
Joined: Jul 15 2014
Gold: 107.77
#55
Aug 16 2021 07:52am
Member
Posts: 53,368
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
#56
Aug 16 2021 08:05am
Member
Posts: 92,984
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
#57
Aug 16 2021 08:17am
Member
Posts: 53,368
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
#58
Aug 16 2021 08:29am
Quote (thesnipa @ 16 Aug 2021 10:17)
https://i.redd.it/bp3q2w9fhph71.jpg

its 17+months later now due to political posturing
https://mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/1427267427084214272

getting out is the right thing to do. botching it again a la iraq and vietnam not so much. well that’s what we get with lifelong swamp demons
Member
Posts: 92,984
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
#59
Aug 16 2021 08:40am
Quote (excellence @ Aug 16 2021 09:29am)
its 17+months later now due to political posturing
https://mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/1427267427084214272

getting out is the right thing to do. botching it again a la iraq and vietnam not so much. well that’s what we get with lifelong swamp demons


And what exactly is getting out the "right way"?

staying 50 more years and eradicating the Taliban slowly while propping up a new stable govt to the tune of trillions of US costs?

Airlifting out half of the population or more? and to where?

this day of a panicked population that doesnt support the Taliban and the Taliban waltzing into Kabul was always the eventuality. it was just a matter of when.

Frankly im shocked Biden is going anti-intervention and going along with the Trump agreement. I'd have expected him to be more hawkish.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 16 2021 08:41am
Member
Posts: 28,884
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 10,712.00
#60
Aug 16 2021 08:46am
Quote (excellence @ Aug 16 2021 10:29am)
its 17+months later now due to political posturing
https://mobile.twitter.com/Snowden/status/1427267427084214272

getting out is the right thing to do. botching it again a la iraq and vietnam not so much. well that’s what we get with lifelong swamp demons


Part of the deal was that the Taliban would sit down with the gov't and come to some sort of power sharing understanding. It was all bullshit though. They knew we wanted to leave and would leave so whatever agreements they can nod yes at the time and do whatever they wanted as soon as we left. The only agreement I think they've honored so far is not targeting Americans. I think they might at least somewhat try to distance themselves from the al-Qaeda, Daesh types because if they don't that just gives a bunch of countries like Russia, China and us reason to start to fuck with them again.

The negotiations under Trump were broad in nature, not tactical decisions how withdrawals will happen but we see that they had no interest in abiding in most things we had to say regardless. That's why this criticism is particularly low iq. We see they discarded most of that stuff, so you have to be some sort of idiot to think that if we only said no rush 30 min a year and a half ago things would somehow be different today.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev14567848Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2026 d2jsp  Contact