Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 6 2021 08:40pm)

I'm starting to see that you just have very poor communication skills. I'm not defending anything. I'm not attacking anything. I'm not moving any goal posts because the conversation hasn't even started. I need you to please stop being defensive, and just talk like a human.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 6 2021 03:47pm)

Economic models like Socialism, Communism, etc that take this idea and put it on "steroids" (for lack of a better word, sorry, very tired today). Not only can you envy your neighbor to the point of a possible mental snap, you now can use the power of the government to essentially steal his/her earnings on the back end. A good friend of mine one said...... If a top-notch cardiac surgeon can't own a Ferrari (investment/reward ratio), then when will there ever be any top-notch cardiac surgeons again? Regardless of how he/she may feel in their final moments about their life's decisions, if the incentive isnt there, its never happening.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 6 2021 07:43pm)

"very poor personal communication skills" in the very next breathe after " This is not an attack".

Yep - it's confirmed this is definitely never bearing fruit at this point.

That will be all - take care and be well. I wish you the best :)

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 6 2021 05:43pm)

"very poor personal communication skills" in the very next breathe after " This is not an attack".

Yep - it's confirmed this is definitely never bearing fruit at this point.

That will be all - take care and be well. I wish you the best :)

Quote (lodd222 @ Jun 6 2021 08:55pm)

snowflakes for you cyrus:

https://i.ibb.co/JpW0DtD/main-qimg-af5235c92ecdd09d0078e2b8fd8218e4.png

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jun 6 2021 05:07pm)

But, how am I behaving as if I am devoid of any responsibility - fair question? Would you not call any of this a display of personal responsibility? If not, why not?

Also, you didn't even ask me where I began after starting to pull myself out of the crater? To give context, I will share by default:

I began in a call center taking mindless phone calls where I repeated the same script over, and over (and over) for 8 and a half hours a day. They hired anyone and there were 22 people in my original training class. one still remains with the company to date and moved up in her career path as I did (an idea of the turnover/fire rate).

I had no skills, no direction, no fancy, parent funded degree and I needed a job because I had 2 kids, so I took this job that paid less than $23,000 a year. I spent almost 4 years (and minimal raises - I think I barely broke 30 at my highest) in that role learning as much as I could and connecting with as many people as I could. My first promotion I had to apply and interview five times before actually getting it (I was passed up 4 prior).

There is no"I can't" (I mean within reason, we will always "can't" fly by flapping our arms, but that's different), there is "I don't want to" and "I don't feel like putting in that much effort". Neither will honestly never be a justification of expansion of social safety nets that are given away for free at any point. Like I said in my most recent response - at face value, that economic model is not viable long-term in any conclusiary outcome in the realm of possibility.

Do know - none of this is intended to be hostile, but, what I believe is going to be very difficult to change having lived through what I have and being able to take a few seconds every now and then and step back and realize where I made it to today (and I can say the same thing about one of my friends who is black that I used to run with back in the day - he's actually a nurse now on his own merits and got 2 years of schooling for free by working in that same call center i mentioned above - first homeowner in his family ever and I'm damn proud of him).

Everyone can change their "stars" - so to speak

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 6 2021 08:43pm)

Maybe we can use this as a starting point.

Cuba, who has a nationalized healthcare system with equal wages across the country (except some notable examples like getting tips from American tourists) still have high class doctors and have made breakthroughs in healthcare treatment in recent decades.

The inventor of the polio vaccine outright refused to patent it and instead distributed the formulation for free.

The world's best researchers actively avoid taking better paying jobs in industry for the sake of doing research at universities.

The Oxford Covid vaccine was developed on public money and was going to be distributed for free until Bill Gates specifically stepped in to stop it.

There are many motivating forces other than money. There certainly would still be top notch cardiac surgeons, because humans still want to help each other, still want to work passionately, and still want other non-financial rewards.

Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 6 2021 09:26pm)

There are exceptions to rules. The Soviets made progress in the space race. The North Koreans largely and independently developed nuclear technology. But the Soviet Union collapsed, and North Korea is not a place that anyone would want to live. As for Cuba, it is an economically stagnant, underdeveloped state with a gross record of human rights.

The world's best research is conducted in the United States. The best companies are American. It is the preferred destination for foreign talent. These are all products of a system which rewards merit, ingenuity, and skill. It isn't monolithic. The United States does not reward public teaching according to merit, and it lags significantly behind. Singapore does, and it has some of the best public education in the world.

When you fail to reward merit, output suffers. Are there other considerations? Of course. But anyone who tries to found a system on people who "want to work passionately" does not understand how human beings function.

Quote (LakeLaogai @ Jun 6 2021 10:10pm)

I think there's been a misunderstanding as I never said that you're acting as though you're devoid of responsibility. What I said was that often people will have a black and white thinking process where any percentage of social support > 0% = people not taking responsibility or accountability. I also think that your anecdotal experience of your own life, as valid as it is, does not translate to a universal experience in terms of what is practical or possible for people.

Per your examples, who is going to work at the call center? Who cleans the hospital that your nurse friend works at? These are full-time jobs and need to be filled by someone. Why should there be people expected to work those jobs and be unable to meet their basic living needs? Society as a whole benefits from being full of educated, safe, and stable people.

Quote (TiStuff @ Jun 7 2021 12:12am)

Capitalism is not practiced any more. they just tell you its capitalism so you think capitalism is the problem. so people will scream for socialism like a bunch of suckers. making tax takers even richer