Except the Mueller report found that Trump tried to work with Russia and was stymied by his staff not following his orders. And it found that Trump lied about contacts. And it found that Trump obstructed the investigation. * and it found that Trump's campaign manager at the time passed polling data to Russia to help with their disinformation campaign. And a bunch of other things.

Yeah, the report doesn't say "Trump made an explicit quid pro quo where he agreed to these exact terms and Putin agreed to these terms", but that was never the bar and has never been the bar. Conservatives did their best to convince as many people as possible that was the bar though, which is why you hear non stop that the Mueller report didn't find collusion.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Feb 7 2021 07:50pm

If China interfered in the 2016 election, and the Hillary campaign chairman gave internal campaign polling data to a Chinese spy in the midst of that attack, my guess is every Trump supporter here would be calling to execute that person for treason.

But when you replace China with Russia, and replace Hillary with Trump, suddenly the narrative gets boiled down to "facebook ads".

It's no surprise that a large percentage of Republicans believe the election was stolen... they aren't a group of people capable of thinking critically. They simply accept what the propagandists they listen to tell them.

This post was edited by IceMage on Feb 7 2021 07:49pm

Uh, the people who verify this stuff ARE non-government experts. There are very few areas where experts are government employees as opposed to government contractors.

People who distrust the system won't be satisfied by any sort of transparency measures. 99% of these people are edge-lords who are intellectually lazy. The 1% who aren't can simply make a FOIA request under most circumstances.

Public information and public access are often light years apart. Fact is, transparency in voting is a good thing, hence why 'election watchers' are accepted and encouraged. Moving trivial counting into a closed-source proprietary system domain is an inherent conflict of interest. Expect to hear people complain about it indefinitely.

Do you trust the doctors hired and paid by Tobacco companies to tell you cigarettes are safe? But you're telling people who mistrust government that they should trust "experts" who're literally paid by the government to prove that the government is trustworthy?

Again, can't make this shit up. Especially when it comes from people who spent the last 4 years screeching inarticulately. It has nothing to do with trust or evidence, and everything to do with results. If Trump had won the election, you'd be the person demanding accountability. And in the case specifically of foreign proprietary machines being used in our election process, I'd be backing you up. Of the two of us, which is consistent?

Did you see the My Pillow guy 3 hour video that exposed the corrupt voting machines?

me neither but I really think he has a point I mean how the hell could 75 million people actually vote for Trump I really think that should be investigated no way that many people voted for trump.

Dems must have rigged that so they didnt win so bad thats probably what the proprietary machines were used for good thing My Pillow guy is exposing those fraudsters for adding more trump votes.

Just like before when Repubs lost over 50 cases against the election the like only one they won it turned out that Republican voters double voted and tried to scam the system you know.

And when the recounted in Georgia it turns out that There were less votes for Republicans its really good they did that wouldn't want the numbers to be skewed more you know? Giving repubs a false sense of hope with so many fake votes they might get angry and do something crazy like storm the capitol after being fed those lies you know

No, I don't trust doctors hired by tobacco companies because the overwhelming consensus among the medical community is that they are not safe. What a stupid analogy lol. In the voting case, multiple entities (including Republicans) overwhelmingly agree that this election was safe. Ted Cruz believes it was safe and so does Josh Hawley. The only people who say it wasn't are bad-faith actors who want to make a quick buck off the disappointment of Trump voters.

You are 100% correct on this point though: They are upset with the RESULT. IMO, they aren't upset with the process in of itself. If Trump won the election, I'm sure there would be people on the "skeptics" on the left crying about the process and the "skeptics" on the right would be saying things like "fuck your feelings." There is NOTHING you can do to satisfy these people because they are just salty. Don't get me wrong, there are legitimate grievances with our voting system and we can always do better. But the shit that the right has come up with is downright pathetic.

Why would I demand accountability if Trump won the election? It'd be a massive disappointment but he would have been held accountable several times already (impeachment trial, multiple investigations, and an election). The failure would have been on the American people for allowing it to happen. That's one of the fundamental flaws of democracy but it is what it is. It really isn't that different when a jury acquits someone who is a scumbag and probably did it. Justice was served but there were simply flaws in the justice system itself.

I don't see an issue with using foreign proprietary machines as long as they are vetted (which they are). Sometimes, foreign countries do things better than America and sometimes they do things cheaper. Again, most skeptics are anti-intellectual and will just move the goal posts. They don't trust foreign entities. Then an American entity does it but they don't trust the government to vet them. Then a private security firm vets the voting firm and they don't trust that because corporations are in bed with each other. You will never satisfy these people.

most would love to be in a position where their employer buys out their contract and then pays them to go away

faux attempting to be msnbc or cnn lite is hilarious. conservatives turn away for good, and liberals will no longer tune into that trash for oppo info when they realize its just a watered-down version of what maddow or cuomo is saying.